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> Is magic broken?
Well, is it?
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Steak and Spirit...
post Sep 18 2006, 05:42 PM
Post #126


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QUOTE (James McMurray)
Actually, you target neither the surface of the baseball nor the inside. You target "the baseball."

...?

I not only just reread through the SR4 rules, but also flipped through SR3 rules, and couldn't find any canon that said the surfaces had to be targetted - I wonder if we just have been playing with house rules so long that I've forgotten what's canon, and what's just 'our' playing style. Oh well.

So. Yeah. Guess I can't dispute that. You're right.
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JonathanC
post Sep 18 2006, 05:48 PM
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I think he's just saying that you target objects...and if you can see the center of what you're targetting, you can hit it.

Though that does bring up the question....when using direct combat spells, can you hit someone if you can only see one of their fingers?
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Shrike30
post Sep 18 2006, 05:59 PM
Post #128


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QUOTE (JonathanC)
I'm probably going to keep it simple....

...edit: To be more specific, I was wondering how they would be communicating with the goggles/commlink to identify the target, but nevermind. Smartlinked goggles would target via tracking eye movement, so that answers that question.

You could always keep it *really* simple, and just have setting up a "trick shot" like this require him to take an Aim action.

No test involved, nothing else going on... it's just that getting that perfectly-aligned AOE bomb dropped right where you want it requires a little more thought and precision.

And, of course, the use of a Simple Action... which delays his actual spellcasting until the next IP.
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JonathanC
post Sep 18 2006, 06:22 PM
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QUOTE (Shrike30)
QUOTE (JonathanC @ Sep 17 2006, 02:38 PM)
I'm probably going to keep it simple....

...edit: To be more specific, I was wondering how they would be communicating with the goggles/commlink to identify the target, but nevermind. Smartlinked goggles would target via tracking eye movement, so that answers that question.

You could always keep it *really* simple, and just have setting up a "trick shot" like this require him to take an Aim action.

No test involved, nothing else going on... it's just that getting that perfectly-aligned AOE bomb dropped right where you want it requires a little more thought and precision.

And, of course, the use of a Simple Action... which delays his actual spellcasting until the next IP.

I'd never hear the end of the complaints from that. :)

Thing is, I don't know if having him wait a whole 'nother initiative pass (which would have probably gotten him smooshed by earth spirits) is what I want. I think I'm going to just give him the ruling he wants in the future...after all, if he can do it, so can enemy mages.
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FrankTrollman
post Sep 18 2006, 06:23 PM
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QUOTE
Though that does bring up the question....when using direct combat spells, can you hit someone if you can only see one of their fingers?


Yes. You don't even have to literally see any part of them because their aura extends through any clothing or armor they happen to be wearing.

-Frank
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JonathanC
post Sep 18 2006, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
QUOTE
Though that does bring up the question....when using direct combat spells, can you hit someone if you can only see one of their fingers?


Yes. You don't even have to literally see any part of them because their aura extends through any clothing or armor they happen to be wearing.

-Frank

Well, I meant if they were hiding behind a wall and only a finger was visible, but I see your point.
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Shrike30
post Sep 18 2006, 06:57 PM
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QUOTE (JonathanC)
I'd never hear the end of the complaints from that. :)

Thing is, I don't know if having him wait a whole 'nother initiative pass (which would have probably gotten him smooshed by earth spirits) is what I want. I think I'm going to just give him the ruling he wants in the future...after all, if he can do it, so can enemy mages.

"Hit them with their own tricks" is a time-honored but frustrating GM tactic. If it's something you think is lame when he does it, it's going to feel just as lame to you when you do it back.

I had a player once decide he wanted to clear a room he was standing in the doorway of with a F10 stun ball. Only problem was, the room was only 5 meters across. His solution was pretty easy... "I center the stun ball 11 meters away from me, outside the window."

I was not amused.
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FrankTrollman
post Sep 18 2006, 07:11 PM
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I had a player have AR images displayed on his vision over the locations of his allies. Spells can't target through the AR images, so his allies were safe from his area spells. :shrug:

-Frank
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JonathanC
post Sep 18 2006, 07:13 PM
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QUOTE (Shrike30)
QUOTE (JonathanC @ Sep 18 2006, 11:22 AM)
I'd never hear the end of the complaints from that. :)

Thing is, I don't know if having him wait a whole 'nother initiative pass (which would have probably gotten him smooshed by earth spirits) is what I want. I think I'm going to just give him the ruling he wants in the future...after all, if he can do it, so can enemy mages.

"Hit them with their own tricks" is a time-honored but frustrating GM tactic. If it's something you think is lame when he does it, it's going to feel just as lame to you when you do it back.

I had a player once decide he wanted to clear a room he was standing in the doorway of with a F10 stun ball. Only problem was, the room was only 5 meters across. His solution was pretty easy... "I center the stun ball 11 meters away from me, outside the window."

I was not amused.

I don't think it's lame, especially not in this case. I don't think any player can say that they invented "high force ball lightning" as a tactic. This is just a matter of a ruling...if we rule it works one way for a player, then of course that ruling stands when an NPC does it.
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JonathanC
post Sep 18 2006, 07:15 PM
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QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
I had a player have AR images displayed on his vision over the locations of his allies. Spells can't target through the AR images, so his allies were safe from his area spells. :shrug:

-Frank

That's great for direct combat, but ball lightning doesn't care who you can see. ;D
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Zen Shooter01
post Sep 18 2006, 07:21 PM
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Beware that issue of the aura extending beyond the clothes.

That ruling is only designed to keep PCs from making themselves immune to magic by wearing clothing or armor that leaves no part of their skin visible. But PCs will try to bend it to mean that they can target people they can't see around corners or pressed up against the other side of a door or something. Don't let them.
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James McMurray
post Sep 18 2006, 07:31 PM
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QUOTE (JonathanC)
I think he's just saying that you target objects...and if you can see the center of what you're targetting, you can hit it.

Though that does bring up the question....when using direct combat spells, can you hit someone if you can only see one of their fingers?

Close. I'm saying that you target the object itself. The magic doesn't know about "center" or "surface." All it sees is "baseball." Whether the damage dealt happens because the entire ball shatters, the surface melts off, or the insides turn to dust is a matter of flavor text.
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Mr. Unpronouncea...
post Sep 18 2006, 09:16 PM
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QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
I had a player have AR images displayed on his vision over the locations of his allies. Spells can't target through the AR images, so his allies were safe from his area spells. :shrug:

-Frank

I hope you at least added some kind of modifier to his rolls (either a negative AR modifier, vision-impaired modifier, or cover modifier, depending on just how much of his line of sight was unavailable to him.)
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Domino
post Sep 18 2006, 10:49 PM
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Yes. But Emo has the fix.
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