Shotguns are inferior as flechette? Options

[Lantzer]

I've done a search or 3, to no avail so....

If you look at the damage codes in 4th edition, The shotguns have worse flechette AP codes than they should based on the shotgun rules in the text. Anyone know what's up? We locally have been considering ignoring the 'flechette' line for the Roomsweeper and the Remington, for consistency's sake.
It would make no sense for shotguns to be systematically inferior flechette weapons. We've left the Mossberg alone, as it has its own advantages.

We've seen no text saying that bone lacing and its bioware equivalent cannot be used together. So if they are stacked, do their unarmed damage codes stack as well?

I assume the prices for audio enhancements ( for earbuds) are per point of rating, right?

If vehicles are by default not rigger adapted, why do they all have a pilot rating?

[kzt]

No, they add two to the base damage of 5 getting 7 and reduce the base penetration of xero to +2. (the -1 is with slugs) You want to argue this has no resemblence to reality I'm with you, but the flechette loads for the shotguns shown match the rules.

[Shrike30]

Stacking the CQB damage modifiers for bone lacing and bone density augmentation is a GM's call thing, at this point. Some take the higher of the two, some simply add the "+x" values together. There are no hard rules for how the math is done. The 'ware combo is legal, however.

Non-rigger modded vehicles have a pilot rating because they have autopilots. You can tell your car where you want to go, and sit in the back reading the newspaper, if you want.

[FriendoftheDork]

Not sure what you mean about the flechette damage... the shotguns seems to have +2 AP to impact armor, just like weapons like the Slivergun. Note that you CHANGE the weapon's standard AP, not add +2 to it. The Roomsweeper works exactly like shotguns in this case.

How are shotguns inferior?

In fact, against a man wearing armor jacket a flechette round is BETTER than standard ammo, as +2 to impact armor gives armor 8 only, the same as it got in ballistic ammo. Still, the +2 damage remains, meaning you do more damage altogether and less likely to have your damage converted to stun.

As for bone lacing and the bioware one, I doubt they stack. Basically if you get the same enhancement from two scources they don't stack.

Audio enhancement... +(rating*100)nuyen
Well it pretty much says it's 100 per rating (which is nothing compared to cybereyes).

[ShadowDragon]

I'd allow bone lacing and density to stack. The reason you're doing more damage is because the mass of your fist/arm is greater. So if you're adding the mass from the lacing and the mass from the denser bone, it should increase the damage. But from a balance perspective I can understand a cap of +4 or 5.

[Jaid]

shotguns use their own, completely wacky rules for flechette.

it is different from putting flechette into a rifle or something like that, and therefore follows different rules.

[Lantzer]

Ok, what confuses me about shotguns is this:

The rules in the text state that the base damage given is for slugs, and that for shot, you should use the standard flechette rules for shotguns, and the special rules for choke setting, all based on the base power of the weapon. So far so good, no arguments.

Problem:
In the equipment section, we are given for the Roomsweeper and the 990 that (where N is a number)
for example

Ammo Dam AP
Slug NP -1
flechette (N+2)P(f) +2

This makes the flechette modifiers +2 power and +_3_ AP. Hence the inconsistency.

Am I making sense?

It should read like this, right?

Ammo Dam AP
Slug NP -1
flechette (N+2)P(f) +1

[Critias]

I don't have an answer, but while everyone's reading this I'll toss in another question (that's on-topic) -- what's the cost for buckshot/flechette ammo, for a shotgun? Is it the same ridiculously expensive cost as for "flechette" ammo for a regular weapon (despite being more common for shotguns, from their own descriptions, than standard slugs?)?

[WhiskeyMac]

I always put it as the same price as regular ammo. Figured shot and slug ammo for a shotgun would be considered "regular" ammo. Flechette prices are for other guns, such as the Viper Slivergun and a flechette Predator.

[hobgoblin]

[Kremlin KOA]

so if a weapon already has -4AP using APDS ammo does not aid it?

oh wait...
page 312 BBB

the dv and ap of the ammunition ade ADDED to the bade dv and AP for the weapon

[hobgoblin]

oh ye flippin gods...
this means i have to rethink a good chunk of the gun stuff...

[NightHaunter]

I believe guns, listed as flechette only already have it factored in though.

[Raizer]

I just handled flechette by removing all the modifiers and just saying it goes against impact armor instead. Works well in my campaign.

[FriendoftheDork]

[Moon-Hawk]

or
3: Shotguns use special flechette rules that give them a +3, which combined with the -1 for slugs that they all get evens out to +2.

Hey, it doesn't make any less sense than the other options. :-)

[Lagomorph]

I had always assumed it was a typo. Either that or the ability to hit multiple opponents (A feature unique to flechette shotguns that are not available to other flechette weapons) adds another +1 AP.

[Lantzer]

[FriendoftheDork]

[hobgoblin]

just checked what page the "modifiers are added" stuff was on, and its in the gear section. no wonder i had missed it. of all the silly places to put a rule...