Newbie Query: Attacking Foci Options

[Matsu Kurisu]

Hi Guys

I have just picked up SR4 and my play group is looking to get a game started. Last time we played Shadowrun was in version 2 days.

I am trying to find the rules that cover weak points/issues for a mage in using foci. The only one I have found was that it will always show your astral signiture.
I am sure in the old versions of SR, you could astrally attack a focus and if it destroyed, poof! you have lots your investment. Also Foci could be used to channel spells directly into the mage e.g. Good guys on run, good guy mage with active focus. Bad mage in astral spots the active focus on good guys mage, attacks it with spell. Rolls lots of successes. Focus bites the dust in big explosion, Good mage takes lots of damage and potentially the group around....

Is this still so in SR4????

Would appreciate some enlightenment....

Many thanks

[Cold-Dragon]

Foci don't normally go up in flames and take the mage with it, but you can attack the foci as usual so long as you can see it on the plane or physically (and use whatever appropriate method for either).

Bear in mind the mage can protect his foci too, and one particularly paranoid about them may layer a few barriers one way or another (granted, that can make it hard for the mage to shoot back, depending on barriers and whatnot.

[Frag-o Delux]

Channeling spells into the mage and surrounding PCs was dropped in third addition, and appearently still dead in 4.

[Matsu Kurisu]

Many thanks guys!!!!

[Metasigil]

Can I get a page number on Attacking Foci? I was looking this weekend and couldn't find anything in the BBB.

[Slithery D]

There isn't anything on it in the BBB or SM. The only way to deactivate (never destroy) foci in SR4 is by carrying one through an astral barrier that you haven't destroyed in astral combat or pushed through with a net success to bring through your focus. The same goes for spells - they can only be defeated by astral barriers or counterspelling, not astral combat.

If you want to house rule this you could treat them like astral barriers, but since those (reflecting wards aside) can't hurt you in return anymore, that makes them much more vulnerable than in SR3, when they could hurt you back. And it makes Counterspelling much less valuable.

[FrankTrollman]

Not quite.

• When activated, foci have an astral form (p. 191)
• Weapon Foci can harm astral forms (p. 184)
• Astral objects can only be affected by physical damage (p. 184)

So yes, you can cut the astral form of a focus in half. At the very least with a weapon focus, and quite probably with any astral attack. When the astral form of a focus is disrupted, any spells it is sustaining go away and the focus deactivates.

It's just a simple action to reactivate the focus, so normally it's kind of a waste of time unless the character is bringing a focus around while astrally projected or something.

-Frank

[Metasigil]

That's a relief. I was starting to get the impression that foci could be destroyed from the astral plane.

[Slithery D]

[Matsu Kurisu]

Thanks again guys. Great discussion. We are leaning towards a house rule where if the focus is de-activated forcefully, it can't be used for a period of time. Immedaite reuse is too soon. A month is probably too long, any thoughts???

[FrankTrollman]

If I were to write such a rule, it would be that a focus could not be reactivated until the sun nexts rises or sets once it was forcefully deactived through disruption.

-Frank

[Mistwalker]

Think I agree with FrankTrollman, until the next sunrise or sunset. That would allow consequences to have the focus dispelled, but still allow a karma and nuyen expensive piece of gear to be useful.

[Slithery D]

Just having to spend a Simple Action to turn it back on, especially when youv'e got someone sitting in astral ambush ready to turn it off again or bash you in the head if you go astral to stop him, seems like enough of a handicap to me without bringing spirit duration rules into foci.

[Mistwalker]

:D
Hmm, maybe I should have added the first disclaime that FrankTrollman listed, if I was to make such a rule....

Don't intend to at the moment.

[Cold-Dragon]

Well, I found one reference in the SR4 book that suggests at least what foci use to protect themselves from attack (though not exactly what happens as of yet).

According to pg 174 of SR4 under 'Determining effects' for spells, magical barriers and foci are noted to use their force as dice to resist spells. While this doesn't directly link to astral combat, it does confirm that foci use force dice for protection. I think that makes it a safe bet as to how the foci resist astral combat thus far.

I'm looking more into it at the moment, see if I can find more definite answers to consequences and etc.

[Apathy]

Does this imply that I can hit the 'christmas tree' mage that has a half-dozen foci active with a moderately strong area-effect spell, and de-activate all his foci at once?

Alternately, if I'm facing the enemy mage on the physical plane, and use a physical damage area attack spell, do all the foci have to resist damage or get destroyed?

[Cold-Dragon]

In theory, yes, an AOE spell just might hit foci, though I think you have to consider the holiday mage as a cover for the foci. You can look that up one up yourself and share. ^-^; I think counterspelling would include the foci as part of the mage's person, so they would already have extra protection.

As per the physical side, if you can hit the foci with something that will definitely damage it, then you can. I can't remember if SR4 magic stuff gets added bonuses from being magical or not though - downside to knowing DnD terms as well as SR. >.<

*will try looking that up too*

-later- well, couldn't find anything else on it in SR4, so time for SM. :P Foci don't add force to defend themselves physically either, though counterspelling foci can obviously lend a hand in specific situations.

[Garrowolf]

Since it says that magic is not drawing from the Astral, that it gets it's energy from the physical when in the physical, and there is nothing about foci being dual natured and the thing about foci having an astral form has to do when they are astrally projecting, I have ruled that you can't attack foci unless you are on the same plane as it is. Personally I prefer magic users having foci. I especially like the idea of low magic rating characters that use foci to cover some of the difference. I think that would be the norm. What I do is rule is to add the force of all your active foci together. Each time it can be divided by your magic rating you have openned alot more energy flowing through your form. You add +1 drain code to every spell you cast.