 Human's and Intuition |
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 Sep 10 2006, 09:03 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346  |
Would there be horrible game balancing issues if Human's received +1 to Intuition rating and attribute cap as a house rule?
Discuss. |
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Sep 10 2006, 09:38 AM
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#2
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Why should they get it in the first place?
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Sep 10 2006, 10:07 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
While I was more interested in the game mechanics in play, than the actual thematic justification, I believe that a portion of the definition of the attribute revolves around instinct and reading crowds. A facet of reading a crowd is empathy - Which can mean placing yourself in the shoes of others. I think it could be argued that given that the majority of the population is Human, it is easier for humankind to empathize socially, and it is part of their being that is developed as they grow up. Also, writing in 'Humans have an instinctual aspect of their character that other metatypes lack', would be a quick house ruled themeatic patch, as well. That said - What potential abuses and exploitations can arise, if this house ruling were adopted? |
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Sep 10 2006, 10:07 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 39 Joined: 16-October 05 Member No.: 7,850 |
perhaps just women should get it? Though I don't really think that womens intuition is very accurate.
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Sep 10 2006, 10:32 AM
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#5
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Oh, hell no. I'm not going to be a part of a renewed thread on that subject.
But, yeah. I don't see it. Hell, I don't think Humans should get +1 Edge. |
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Sep 10 2006, 10:38 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
I understand. If there has already been a thread on this subject, perhaps someone could point me towards it?
Otherwise (Seriously), I wouldn't mind some speculation on any game balance issues that would arise? I'm sorry if I haven't been clear, but I'm not really curious about thematic implications, and/or personal preferences since this is intended to be a considered HOUSE RULE and not a change to the core game. |
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Sep 10 2006, 11:01 AM
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#7
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Here.
It may help with drain. It may affect some skills, like Perception and Assensing, and it also determines Initiative and starting knowledge skills. There aren't really big mechanics issues. |
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Sep 10 2006, 11:12 AM
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#8
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,598 Joined: 15-March 03 From: Hong Kong Member No.: 4,253 |
I assume you mean in exchange for the +1 Edge they normally get? Edge is probably a slightly more power stat, in general. On the other hand, this makes custom INT based traditions even more attractive.
If you mean that humans would get a +1 Int in addition to +1 edge, the price of being human should go up by 11-12 points. |
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Sep 10 2006, 12:03 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
Perhaps this 'House Rule' could turn into an Alternate Race, then.
Also:
Thoughts? EDIT: Editted to include 'Mystic Adept' in list of banned non-compatible qualities. 'Interspecies' changed to 'Intraspecies'. |
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Sep 10 2006, 01:54 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Perhaps in that case, you might want to make it into a positive quality, instead of a racial variant.
BP cost of 5. |
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Sep 10 2006, 02:15 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
Possible - However, I didn't want the concept to just turn into a no brainer - I.e, +1 Intuition, or +1 Intuition as a metatype, and I get an additional starting quality slot. Which, unfortunately in hindsight, it appears that it might be anyway. Perhaps the cost should be increased to 15-20 BPs. And for clarification, 'Resilient Soul' isn't intended to be a human only quality. Merely, one that is not available to players who choose to make awakened characters. And another:
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Sep 11 2006, 04:21 PM
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#12
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
What the hell are you talking about? If you want your human to get a +1 Intuition cap, then take the Exceptional Attribute quality and justify it with whatever you like! House ruling it is just ridiculous.
Resiliant Soul is totally unbalanced. The essence cap of 6 should never ever be modified. Wizgear is good, though. |
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Sep 11 2006, 04:28 PM
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#13
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Although becoming a Ghoul lowers it to 5, being a Shapechanger raises it to 8, and getting your grimy hands on the Essence Drain power raises it to 12. But I agree that the cap of 6 shouldn't be modified without exceptionally good reason. Remember that the rules are that you lose Magic attribute if your Essence drops below 6. So technically if you have an Essence of 7 you can get yourself a Reflex Booster level 2 without hurting your Magic Attribute... -Frank |
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Sep 11 2006, 04:29 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: 6-August 06 Member No.: 9,032 |
Cultured bioware IS available at character creation anyway. It is NOT an essence-changing grade such as alpha/beta/deltaware. Just to clarify. So ou COULD have beta-bioware with your housrule-thingie there.
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Sep 11 2006, 04:52 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
Why? Isn't the classic arguement that Awakened Characters have more room to develop, Mundanes are more top heavy up front? Doesn't this fall in line with that? Isn't 'Essence' for Samurai more or less the same as 'Magic' for Adepts/Magicians? Can't Magic be raised beyond six? I'm missing something. Could you constructively back up the point that you've made?
I think that's a non-issue, Frank.
Thanks. Might need a little tweaking, but I like the concept at its core.
It's not -just- +1 Intuition. Don't overlook the additional slot for starting qualities. All rolled up in a nice, affordable package. :) |
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Sep 11 2006, 04:55 PM
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#16
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
What are you trying to accomplish with these House Rules that can't be done with the current qualities?
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Sep 11 2006, 05:01 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
Provide additional incentive/expansion for my Mundane Characters, allow them to start out the gate with cooler toys, add another facet to human characters to make being 'just human' less of a 'dull' option for some of my players.
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Sep 11 2006, 05:08 PM
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#18
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
There are a lot of ways to accomplish this. For example you could allow players to purchase cyber at normal nuyen cost but use the alpha grade essence cost. As for other attributes, I think + 1 Edge is a far bigger thing than a lot of players realize.
During game play, if you emphasize the affects of rampant racism, then the advantage of being human and fitting in should be more telling. I've seen lots of different groups play, some have turned out all human, others emphasize the various metaraces, so this may be a case of the players wanting something different then the GM expects. Is this a real "problem" if the players are choosing to play the other metaraces? |
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Sep 11 2006, 05:18 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
Allowing alpha grade essence, with Standard costs seems like half a dozen one way, and six the other.
As far as players wanting something different than the GM expects - Possible. I think the general understanding between GMs has been that we'd like at least the bulk of our playerbase to be human, however. A handful of elves, a few trolls and dwarves, and some orks isn't too bad. But the environment I game in, isn't friends coming into my living room, where we can discuss the needs of the group - As a result, provided character generation is completed, and an approving admin stamps off on the application, a new player is free to hit the grid. So rather than 'police' applications based on racial quota, I find it's more productive to create 'incentive' based systems. |
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Sep 11 2006, 08:17 PM
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#20
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Once again. why does the player base need to conform racially? Will it detract from the players game experience in some way if society has certain proportion of population but the shadowrunning team doesn't?
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Sep 11 2006, 08:47 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
I very much doubt that having a playerbase population that does not conform to Shadowrun canon will detract largely from the game, no, which is why the goal is to allow character generation to be influenced by 'incentive' rather than 'policing'. However, and I think there needs to be a degree of explanation here since I haven't been clear - This isn't a tabletop game set in someone's living room where a single GM gets together with a few players to forge through a campaign, a couple nights a week - This is a multiple GM'd, partially self-sustaining* 24/7 environment, open to anyone that happens to log in. And the genre can get gems, and they can get riffraff.
So with that said, as GMs, we have certain goals we'd like to lay into theme, without actually going out and forcing concepts onto PCs - Call it 'encouragement'. And without really getting long and lengthy on motivation, here, I believe out general consensus is that Humans and Mundanes are GoodStuff™, we would like to capitalize on the cyberpunk aspects of Shadowrun, and focus less on the Fantasy aspects which include Magic and Metatypes. That is not to say they will not be represented on the grid, and by playercharacters none the less, just that it will be more prudent to keep them from overrunning the current themeatic overview. Fair enough? So, moving back to those qualities - I still don't feel like I've received enough convincing to believe that they're monstrously unbalancing, while I dont' feel comfortable entirely with the balance issues. I suppose if Dumpshock (Much to my surprise, and disappointment) fails to get to mechanics/balance of the proposed qualities, we'll just have to sort the matter out inhouse. However, sincerely, I know you guys are all a wealth of information - If anyone has some constructive insight, I'd love to hear it. :) *So long as GM intervention isn't required to take rolls, or as long as a PlayerStaffer is available for PlayerRunPlot related rolls. |
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Sep 11 2006, 09:25 PM
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#22
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
You can't mess with the 6 points of essence, because then you're gonna have characters with too much cyber. Filling in those full 6 points (or close to it) already produces pretty scary cyber monsters. Give them another point, and it's going to be awful. Add to that the fact that many mechanisms, such as, for one example, the Heal spell take essence into consideration, "punishing" cybered individual. With your system, you can have a full point of essence gone and still have a perfectyl clean aura.
I guess it all boils down to experience as a GM: 6 points of essence is plenty. There is no need to introduce an Edge to give more. Especially since the strict limit of 6 is important even in fluff stories (Harlequin has >6 essence, and it's like a huge WTF??HAX!! for players). It's just not to be messed with. Give +1 attribute AND not eating a slot is terrible. Why? Why would you give this kind of power? Why shouldn't they take Exceptional attribute and lose that slot like everyone else? If you really, really think humans should be able to interact better cause there are more humans, then be logical about it and stick a blanket house rule that when dealing with members of your own race, you get a +1 Intuition dice. Of course, I think you'd be wrong to do that anyway, but at least it's more consistent. |
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Sep 11 2006, 09:57 PM
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#23
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Instead of odd new mechanics or qualities, why not simply offer a bonus 10 BP to all Mundane Humans in chargen?
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Sep 11 2006, 10:45 PM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,032 Joined: 6-August 04 Member No.: 6,543 |
So mundane human should be a flaw?
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 Sep 11 2006, 10:58 PM
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#25
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,471 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
What's wrong with the extra Edge? Seems alright to me as the human advantage. :)
Bye Thanee |
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