Is Logic useless in astral space? Options

[Slithery D]

Haven't seen this one mentioned before, so...

Logic functions as Agility in astral space. But since Astral Combat is based on Willpower, I'm apparently going to have to wait for astral guns to be introduced before I can use it in any way at all. Can anyone think of any way Agility is useful in astral space? Does every shaman build have Logic 2, taking the extra point in case they want more than one focus active at a time?

Edit: Maybe astral Infiltration? Gee, how important yet craptacular.

[gunsnammo]

Well you could possibly want to juggle. Or astral gymnastics maybe? :D Can you use gymanastics with dodge in astral?

gunsnammo

[Cold-Dragon]

astral agility would involve things like racing in astral space - while technically you can go hyper speed, there would still be moments of 'who can project faster than the other'.

Also, while not astral involved, arcana uses logic, so it has an extra use now which is at least partly important to those who want to make spells or ally spirit formula's and other things.

[Eryk the Red]

Actually, if you read closely, you roll Willpower + Astral Combat only while dual-natured/astrally perceiving and attacking an entirely astral target. When astrally projecting, it says you use your mental atts in place of physical ones, with Astral Combat. Since all attack rolls are normally made with Agility (you'll note that the combat rules explicitly define Agility as the attribute for attack rolls, rather than saying you use the skill with its linked att), you would use Logic. I wish it were said more clearly in the book, but that seems to be how it's meant to be. And it's certainly how I like it.

[krayola red]

[FrankTrollman]

Your Astral Infiltration is Logic-based. That's pretty important for recon work.

-Frank

[hyzmarca]

[Slithery D]

I agree with hyzmarca, but the really bad thing is that physical agility is so important to combat, while astral agility is...not.

Except...good call by Eryk the Red. I think your reading is right, but that does leave the problem of Astral Combat being Willpower linked in the skill description. And it seems particularly weird to have Willpower rather than Agility or Logic add to the skill only when you're astrally perceiving and attacking a wholly astral foe. I can't imagine any metaphysical reason Willpower should be the linked skill in that circumstance, but certainly not why it should be linked in only that cirumstance.

[FrankTrollman]

You also use Willpower + Banishing to make an attack of Will against Spirits.

But regardless, I find that Charisma is pretty non-exciting in Astral Space as well. Sure, it's your Astral Strength, but you don't carry anything. Ever. Which means that your Astral Strength is pretty much just your astral melee damage. And if you have a Stun Bolt or a Monowhip Focus, you don't even use it for that.

So I would say that Charisma is the dump stat for Astral Travelers, not Logic.

-Frank

[Slithery D]

But you use Charisma + Magic to press through a ward. That's not useless. Well, ok, it is if unlike me you read the attacking a ward rules and understood they don't regenerate until you quit hitting them, rather than immediately after you hit the first time (first impression) or after one combat round (second, also wrong). But then the basic ward rules are all kinds of dumb.