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> Human's and Intuition
Steak and Spirit...
post Sep 10 2006, 09:03 AM
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Would there be horrible game balancing issues if Human's received +1 to Intuition rating and attribute cap as a house rule?

Discuss.
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SL James
post Sep 10 2006, 09:38 AM
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Why should they get it in the first place?
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Steak and Spirit...
post Sep 10 2006, 10:07 AM
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QUOTE
Intuition covers “mental alertness”—the ability to take in
and process information, to read a crowd, to assess a situation
for danger or opportunity. A character with little Intuition may
be unobservant, may rarely think things fully through, or could
simply be “slow.” A character with a high Intuition is adept at
making the best of a bad situation, knowing when to leave before
an encounter escalates, noticing small clues, and working
from instinct.


While I was more interested in the game mechanics in play, than the actual thematic justification, I believe that a portion of the definition of the attribute revolves around instinct and reading crowds.

A facet of reading a crowd is empathy - Which can mean placing yourself in the shoes of others. I think it could be argued that given that the majority of the population is Human, it is easier for humankind to empathize socially, and it is part of their being that is developed as they grow up. Also, writing in 'Humans have an instinctual aspect of their character that other metatypes lack', would be a quick house ruled themeatic patch, as well.

That said - What potential abuses and exploitations can arise, if this house ruling were adopted?
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Llewelyn
post Sep 10 2006, 10:07 AM
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perhaps just women should get it? Though I don't really think that womens intuition is very accurate.
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SL James
post Sep 10 2006, 10:32 AM
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Oh, hell no. I'm not going to be a part of a renewed thread on that subject.

But, yeah. I don't see it. Hell, I don't think Humans should get +1 Edge.
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Steak and Spirit...
post Sep 10 2006, 10:38 AM
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I understand. If there has already been a thread on this subject, perhaps someone could point me towards it?

Otherwise (Seriously), I wouldn't mind some speculation on any game balance issues that would arise? I'm sorry if I haven't been clear, but I'm not really curious about thematic implications, and/or personal preferences since this is intended to be a considered HOUSE RULE and not a change to the core game.
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SL James
post Sep 10 2006, 11:01 AM
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Here.

It may help with drain. It may affect some skills, like Perception and Assensing, and it also determines Initiative and starting knowledge skills. There aren't really big mechanics issues.
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Crusher Bob
post Sep 10 2006, 11:12 AM
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I assume you mean in exchange for the +1 Edge they normally get? Edge is probably a slightly more power stat, in general. On the other hand, this makes custom INT based traditions even more attractive.

If you mean that humans would get a +1 Int in addition to +1 edge, the price of being human should go up by 11-12 points.
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Steak and Spirit...
post Sep 10 2006, 12:03 PM
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Perhaps this 'House Rule' could turn into an Alternate Race, then.

QUOTE

Metatype Variant - Joe Average, 10 BP

Joe Average is essentially the next step in human evolution - In a world that is rapidly changing from Mundane to Magical, humankind has been forced to take it's own genetic intraspecies leaps.  Joe Average has all exterior traits of humanity, with the following modifications:

+1 Intuition, a starting character may choose 1 additional Quality, at cost.


Also:

QUOTE


Resilient Soul - 15 BP

A Resilient Soul is the type of individual who relies neither on the tools of the awakened world, nor the crutch that magic can foster.  Be it that their internal composure is hardier to the invasions of modern science, or their souls are simply more in tune to the anchors of this physical plane.  One thing is clear as human kind forks between Magic and Machine, a Resilient Soul firmly sides with Technology.

A character with this quality begins with +1 to their essence attribute after calculations for cyberware or bioware modifications.  A character with this quality cannot take the Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, or Technomancer qualities.



Thoughts?

EDIT: Editted to include 'Mystic Adept' in list of banned non-compatible qualities. 'Interspecies' changed to 'Intraspecies'.
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Mistwalker
post Sep 10 2006, 01:54 PM
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Perhaps in that case, you might want to make it into a positive quality, instead of a racial variant.
BP cost of 5.
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Steak and Spirit...
post Sep 10 2006, 02:15 PM
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Possible - However, I didn't want the concept to just turn into a no brainer - I.e, +1 Intuition, or +1 Intuition as a metatype, and I get an additional starting quality slot. Which, unfortunately in hindsight, it appears that it might be anyway.

Perhaps the cost should be increased to 15-20 BPs.

And for clarification, 'Resilient Soul' isn't intended to be a human only quality. Merely, one that is not available to players who choose to make awakened characters.

And another:

QUOTE

Wizgear, Chummer BP: 5, 10, 15

Each level of this quality allows a character to choose a single piece of cyberware or Bioware that may be purchased at cost as a Beta or Cultured grade implant during character generation.
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Backgammon
post Sep 11 2006, 04:21 PM
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What the hell are you talking about? If you want your human to get a +1 Intuition cap, then take the Exceptional Attribute quality and justify it with whatever you like! House ruling it is just ridiculous.

Resiliant Soul is totally unbalanced. The essence cap of 6 should never ever be modified.

Wizgear is good, though.
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FrankTrollman
post Sep 11 2006, 04:28 PM
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QUOTE
Resiliant Soul is totally unbalanced. The essence cap of 6 should never ever be modified.


Although becoming a Ghoul lowers it to 5, being a Shapechanger raises it to 8, and getting your grimy hands on the Essence Drain power raises it to 12.

But I agree that the cap of 6 shouldn't be modified without exceptionally good reason. Remember that the rules are that you lose Magic attribute if your Essence drops below 6. So technically if you have an Essence of 7 you can get yourself a Reflex Booster level 2 without hurting your Magic Attribute...

-Frank
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Xenefungus
post Sep 11 2006, 04:29 PM
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Cultured bioware IS available at character creation anyway. It is NOT an essence-changing grade such as alpha/beta/deltaware. Just to clarify. So ou COULD have beta-bioware with your housrule-thingie there.
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Steak and Spirit...
post Sep 11 2006, 04:52 PM
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QUOTE (Backgammon)
Resiliant Soul is totally unbalanced. The essence cap of 6 should never ever be modified.

Why? Isn't the classic arguement that Awakened Characters have more room to develop, Mundanes are more top heavy up front? Doesn't this fall in line with that? Isn't 'Essence' for Samurai more or less the same as 'Magic' for Adepts/Magicians? Can't Magic be raised beyond six?

I'm missing something. Could you constructively back up the point that you've made?

QUOTE

Remember that the rules are that you lose Magic attribute if your Essence drops below 6. So technically if you have an Essence of 7 you can get yourself a Reflex Booster level 2 without hurting your Magic Attribute...


QUOTE

Resilient Soul - 15 BP

...

...A character with this quality cannot take the Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, or Technomancer qualities.


I think that's a non-issue, Frank.

QUOTE

Wizgear is good, though.


Thanks. Might need a little tweaking, but I like the concept at its core.

QUOTE

What the hell are you talking about? If you want your human to get a +1 Intuition cap, then take the Exceptional Attribute quality and justify it with whatever you like! House ruling it is just ridiculous.


It's not -just- +1 Intuition. Don't overlook the additional slot for starting qualities. All rolled up in a nice, affordable package. :)
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DireRadiant
post Sep 11 2006, 04:55 PM
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What are you trying to accomplish with these House Rules that can't be done with the current qualities?
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Steak and Spirit...
post Sep 11 2006, 05:01 PM
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Provide additional incentive/expansion for my Mundane Characters, allow them to start out the gate with cooler toys, add another facet to human characters to make being 'just human' less of a 'dull' option for some of my players.
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DireRadiant
post Sep 11 2006, 05:08 PM
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There are a lot of ways to accomplish this. For example you could allow players to purchase cyber at normal nuyen cost but use the alpha grade essence cost. As for other attributes, I think + 1 Edge is a far bigger thing than a lot of players realize.

During game play, if you emphasize the affects of rampant racism, then the advantage of being human and fitting in should be more telling.

I've seen lots of different groups play, some have turned out all human, others emphasize the various metaraces, so this may be a case of the players wanting something different then the GM expects.

Is this a real "problem" if the players are choosing to play the other metaraces?
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Steak and Spirit...
post Sep 11 2006, 05:18 PM
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Allowing alpha grade essence, with Standard costs seems like half a dozen one way, and six the other.

As far as players wanting something different than the GM expects - Possible. I think the general understanding between GMs has been that we'd like at least the bulk of our playerbase to be human, however. A handful of elves, a few trolls and dwarves, and some orks isn't too bad. But the environment I game in, isn't friends coming into my living room, where we can discuss the needs of the group - As a result, provided character generation is completed, and an approving admin stamps off on the application, a new player is free to hit the grid.

So rather than 'police' applications based on racial quota, I find it's more productive to create 'incentive' based systems.
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DireRadiant
post Sep 11 2006, 08:17 PM
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Once again. why does the player base need to conform racially? Will it detract from the players game experience in some way if society has certain proportion of population but the shadowrunning team doesn't?
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Steak and Spirit...
post Sep 11 2006, 08:47 PM
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I very much doubt that having a playerbase population that does not conform to Shadowrun canon will detract largely from the game, no, which is why the goal is to allow character generation to be influenced by 'incentive' rather than 'policing'. However, and I think there needs to be a degree of explanation here since I haven't been clear - This isn't a tabletop game set in someone's living room where a single GM gets together with a few players to forge through a campaign, a couple nights a week - This is a multiple GM'd, partially self-sustaining* 24/7 environment, open to anyone that happens to log in. And the genre can get gems, and they can get riffraff.

So with that said, as GMs, we have certain goals we'd like to lay into theme, without actually going out and forcing concepts onto PCs - Call it 'encouragement'. And without really getting long and lengthy on motivation, here, I believe out general consensus is that Humans and Mundanes are GoodStuff™, we would like to capitalize on the cyberpunk aspects of Shadowrun, and focus less on the Fantasy aspects which include Magic and Metatypes. That is not to say they will not be represented on the grid, and by playercharacters none the less, just that it will be more prudent to keep them from overrunning the current themeatic overview.

Fair enough?

So, moving back to those qualities - I still don't feel like I've received enough convincing to believe that they're monstrously unbalancing, while I dont' feel comfortable entirely with the balance issues. I suppose if Dumpshock (Much to my surprise, and disappointment) fails to get to mechanics/balance of the proposed qualities, we'll just have to sort the matter out inhouse.

However, sincerely, I know you guys are all a wealth of information - If anyone has some constructive insight, I'd love to hear it. :)

*So long as GM intervention isn't required to take rolls, or as long as a PlayerStaffer is available for PlayerRunPlot related rolls.
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Backgammon
post Sep 11 2006, 09:25 PM
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You can't mess with the 6 points of essence, because then you're gonna have characters with too much cyber. Filling in those full 6 points (or close to it) already produces pretty scary cyber monsters. Give them another point, and it's going to be awful. Add to that the fact that many mechanisms, such as, for one example, the Heal spell take essence into consideration, "punishing" cybered individual. With your system, you can have a full point of essence gone and still have a perfectyl clean aura.

I guess it all boils down to experience as a GM: 6 points of essence is plenty. There is no need to introduce an Edge to give more. Especially since the strict limit of 6 is important even in fluff stories (Harlequin has >6 essence, and it's like a huge WTF??HAX!! for players). It's just not to be messed with.

Give +1 attribute AND not eating a slot is terrible. Why? Why would you give this kind of power? Why shouldn't they take Exceptional attribute and lose that slot like everyone else? If you really, really think humans should be able to interact better cause there are more humans, then be logical about it and stick a blanket house rule that when dealing with members of your own race, you get a +1 Intuition dice. Of course, I think you'd be wrong to do that anyway, but at least it's more consistent.
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DireRadiant
post Sep 11 2006, 09:57 PM
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Instead of odd new mechanics or qualities, why not simply offer a bonus 10 BP to all Mundane Humans in chargen?
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Cynic project
post Sep 11 2006, 10:45 PM
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So mundane human should be a flaw?
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Thanee
post Sep 11 2006, 10:58 PM
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What's wrong with the extra Edge? Seems alright to me as the human advantage. :)

Bye
Thanee
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