Spirits and Car Chases, Looking for advice/experience with this Options

[Eryk the Red]

I'm running a session tonight that will likely feature, most prominently, a big car chase. Now, to be clear, I'm not using the chase rules from the book, because I think they're lame. I have my own ruleset that is a tad more complex, but which can take place during normal combat turns. Regardless, I'm a little concerned because the mage LOVES his spirits. Has anyone found that the Movement power tends to render chases moot? I know there's defenses against this (I'm going to have some spirit support). But it can still be problematic if that Westwind's top speed suddenly becomes almost 1100 miles per hour (1728 kph; SR4 speed rating: 1440). Under the normal chase rules, I know, this wouldn't matter. But then, that's why I'm not using them.

Anyway, I guess I'm just wondering if anyone knows any way to make sure magic doesn't completely ruin my fun other than astrally bitchslapping the spirits (which I intend to do, anyway).

[Jaid]

well, you could make sure the opponent's vehicles are warded. that would be kinda useful =P

[Eryk the Red]

True, but that's not gonna help when the mage makes the spirit boost his own vehicle's speed, for the speedy getaway.

[Jaid]

ah, so the runners are being pursued then...

in that case, i recommend hacking their vehicle.

also, it should be noted that someone travelling over 1,100 mph is going to attract some police attention. Joe wageslave doesn't approve of people driving that fast, you know ;) and while your original pursuer may not have a reason to have spirits granting movement to their vehicles, the star certainly will.

after all, there's no rule of the game that says "runners are immune to speeding tickets", and the runners are probably not gonna assume it's for a speeding ticket either (mind you, a speeding ticket is usually based on how much you break the speed limit by, is it not? that's gonna be one painful ticket if the cops catch up... )

also, you don't necessarily need to be at their destination as soon as them to sucessfully chase them... for example, if you just track them using cameras and such (which should be almost everywhere other than the barrens), then you know where they are... it might take you a little longer to get there, but you can still get there. this also works well if you manage to get a tracer onto their vehicle...

[Gustave]

A turn? Seems like going 1100 miles per hour isn't exactly conducive to sudden, sharp turns. This seems pretty close to what might happen.

[Butterblume]

Speed bumps or a little debris on the street might ruin your day whan driving, uhm, faster than normal.

[Eryk the Red]

I guess I should have specified, this is happening on a highway out of Seattle, on Salish land. It's mostly straight and flat. Now, I know this doesn't mean there won't be cars and debris, but it changes things if sharp turns aren't necessary. In game terms, the vehicle test thresholds with be rather low (they'll be nil for the chopper pursuing them). I'll probably give them an "unsafe speed" penalty if they try to boost speed too much.

It should be interesting. The driver hasn't had much time to strut her stuff, and I think this'll make her player happy.

[kzt]

[Mistwalker]

Even on a flat and straight highway, there will be obstacles.
Other cars, trucks, animals crossing the road.
I imagine that hitting a deer or such at 1100 miles per hour (let alone per turn) will have some serious impact (no pun intended) on the vehichle and it's occupants

And if your driver is good enough to zig around such obstacles, what happens when she runs into some 18 wheelers passing each other?

They can go fast, but reaction time, manoeuvering time, etc... becomes impossible at very high speeds.

They could out speed the ground vehicles, but probably not the aircrafts, or other spirits that the pursuers would have attacking your mage's spirit.

[Eryk the Red]

Side question about spirits: Say the mage has his spirit use Movement on their car (even at a reduced level), and while he pops up to activate that power, he gets attacked by another spirit. Does he defend himself? Or does the mage have to use up another service to tell him to fight the spirit?

[Mistwalker]

I would say that spirits will always defend themselves for free

Well, almost always. If the mage has really torked them off, they may allow themselves to be disrupted, to end the service.

[laughingowl]

One question on all of this.


Do most people haper movement power to boost 'maximum speed' but treat them as travelling that speed (for problems/accidents etc).


While it hasnt come up in SR4 for me, in previous, I have always ruled the movement power function 'after' any TN calculations.

IF the car was go 60, the checks were based on going 60... If a spirit 'bumped' the relative speed up to 240, then while 240m was traveled it would 'handle' as if going 60.


Speeding ticket / notice from authorities is a good reason not to go this fast... although if using spirits to boost movement, I would strongly suggest using spirits to provide guard and concealment.

Now you can zip around safely, quitely, and insanely fast....

[Backgammon]

You think that's bad? Wait till he thinks of using Movement + Guard. Accidents can no longer happen to him. Now you'll be in trouble. He doesn't even have to pay attention to the road since he can't crash. :)

[Eryk the Red]

Guard's not quite that good. It won't change that there's a great big tree in front of you when the road turns and you don't.

[Slithery D]

Agreed. It's more of a you don't skid on a wet spot or have your tire punctured by a nail on the road type of power.

[Pchapin]

Hmm, 1100 miles per hour? If I remember right, the speed of sound is roughly 750ish mph, so you're looking at roughly mach 1.5. What kind of shockwave would that induce? There are probably people with a better knowledge of the physics involved, but I figure its probably enough to knock down normal pedestrians in the street, possibly blow out windows in storefronts, possibly blow out windows of passing cars etc. Even if you are on a freeway, most of the other cars you are going to pass / maneuver around (I assume you don't hit them at 1,000ish mph relative velocity) are going to end up in an accident either from surprise or shockwave.

I would guess that your team might string a long and grisly trail of destruction behind them, the kind of things that will be the lead story on the news for the next week, the kind of thing that could make your Johnson, who didn't want his covert op on the front page, kinda angry. Also might make several large and nasty organizations such as the cops, the city government, really interested in finding your team and making sure there is no second offense.

[maeel]

i see another problem here the spirit enhances the cars movement rate but does not move it at that speed all by it self, so at such a high speed ur engine would overspin and blow!

[Slithery D]

Uh...sure. Do you have your characters blow out a knee when a spirit uses Movement to boost their walk/run speed?

[maeel]

can ur car jump?

[James McMurray]

[maeel]

no, i was trying to say that a car has permanent contact with the street, so the increased speed would overspin the engine, while a man running has only periodically contact with the ground with one leg only, so it cannot be compared so easily....

[knasser]

I consider the car to handle at its pre-Movement speed (60mph in your example).

It's a bit of a hold over from earlier editions where a shaman would summon the spirit of a Mountain or a City, etc. and get it to use Movement in its environment... but I've always considered Movement to be slightly mystical. E.g. when driving, all the lights are on green, roads are clear and cars pull in just in time. When hiking, mysterious trails open up, you find a river flowing your direction with an old boat moored there.

Doesn't really work in 4th Ed. with really fast multipliers, but I keep an element of that in the power use. I played Conceal in a similar way.

[BlackHat]

I had a player do this once in car combat, and combined with the Rigger's large number of hits, they got going pretty fast before needing to make a crash test - which was disasterious since the car was moving like 300 mph. The spirit speeds up the car, not the driver's reaction-time, so it made sense to me to apply the penalties for exceeding the car's "safe" speed.

There are arguments on both sides about that ruling, but one thing to keep in mind is that should a crash occur, at 5x speed (or whatever it is), both vehicles (and all of the passengers) are pretty much toast. And just because the Rigger is a decent driver, doesn't mean the other cars on the street are.

[Backgammon]

[laughingowl]