 Aleph Society, Threrats 2 or RL? |
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 Sep 15 2006, 02:56 PM
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#1
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Prime Runner  Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221  |
http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacifi...fic/5348160.stm
OK this just whacked me upside the head. did anyone else catch it? In Threats 2 there is a group called aleph, helping burn outs get power back. Founded in 2060. It is a spiritual self help group. now the weird stuff In Japan today there is a group called aleph. It is the renamed Ausum riko (god knows how it's spelled) the dooms day cult that set off a poisoned gas attack in the Tokyo subways in the mid 1990's. Obviously their membership dropped after lots of arrests and death sentences but some held on, led by the daughter of the cult's leader. It changed it's name to Aleph in 2000. Threats 2 came out in 2001. |
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Sep 15 2006, 03:24 PM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,379 Joined: 16-April 02 From: the LI shadows Member No.: 2,607 |
Coincidence.
You could have this little news-blurb as a footnote in the history of the group, saying that it 'borrowed' the name from this group, or it's 'dark secret' origin was that is was this group pre-Awakening. |
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Sep 15 2006, 03:55 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
Aleph is the name of the first letter in several middle eastern languages, and has accordingly been adopted for several uses in science, computer science, and fiction. It's no more weird or surprising than if a doomsday cult called itself "Omega."
OMG, the Corporate Court has Omega orders!!! It's a conspiracy! |
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Sep 15 2006, 04:11 PM
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#4
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
It's Aum Shinrikyo. The Japanese government is leery about having its government buildings so close together because of the possibility of incidents like this.
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Sep 15 2006, 07:35 PM
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#5
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
I like the idea of a dark secret. Considering they were on the side of the holy mountain and their leader will be executed by hanging it give a whole new idea for that gorup-hee hee hee.
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Sep 15 2006, 07:40 PM
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#6
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Incidents like what? Helping demonstrate to the world why chemical/biological weapons in criminal/irregular/"terrorist" hands are not a meaningful threat? ~J |
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Sep 15 2006, 10:24 PM
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#7
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
That post doesn't make any sense since they proved these are a meaningful threat. The serrin gas attack killed, I believe, a dozen and injured hundreds. someone better organized than these fruitcakes could do far worse, like co-ordinating multiple bombs on multiple trains at rush hour, and Tokyo trains arem uch more crowded than trains in, oh say London or Madrid.
To stay on topic though, how about an evil free psirit claimnig to be the ghost of the gorup's leader.... |
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Sep 15 2006, 10:38 PM
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#8
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yes. They did this with a quantity of (quite potent, hard-to-produce) toxin that should have killed thousands. They had 11 litres between them, IIRC, and released it in perfect conditions—widely distributed, and insanely high human density. In many cases, there was a significant length of exposure. Twelve people died. A lot of people got "sick", but only about fifty had anything more serious than minor vision issues. Compare to a single backpack explosive. Easier, cheaper, and a fuckton more effective. ~J |
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Sep 15 2006, 11:59 PM
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#9
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
But considering its impact, I'd say it is just as effective. Despite the difference in death toll, the psychological impact is similar. It doesn't matter if the gas attack kill only 1 or 100, the main effect is to cause fear. And both explosives and gas do spread fear well.
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Sep 16 2006, 02:35 PM
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#10
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
Right, the point is they showed the action can take place. Look at terrorist attacks on the World Trade Center. The first one only killed a few people in the immediate area.
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Sep 16 2006, 02:38 PM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
Don't you ever get sick of arguing with people? You really aren't helping. On topic: I like the idea of an evil free spirit claiming to be the ghost of the executed leader, but I'm pretty sure Gaf is a horror. Maybe Shoko Asahara was raised by a master shedim, thus gaining his memories and experiences, and he's posing as Dr. Nickson. Perhaps Gaf is group of free spirits, all those Aum Shinrikyo members executed by the Japanese government. If you want to make a tie between the two it wouldn't be difficult. |
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Sep 16 2006, 03:08 PM
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#12
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Creating a god with his own hands Group: Members Posts: 1,405 Joined: 30-September 02 From: 0:0:0:0:0:0:0:1 Member No.: 3,364 |
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: |
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Sep 16 2006, 03:17 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 16-October 03 Member No.: 5,725 |
I have come to be unhappy with seeing that accusation flung about. People are going to have disagreements. Public message boards on the Internet are not the place to come to in order to avoid coming into contact with such disagreements. Derogatorily labeling all disagreements as arguments is not helpful.
It seemed like he was being helpful to me. --------------------------------------------- I understood Kagetenshi's statement perfectly. It must be read in the correct context. The ordinary man on the street would have found the 1995 nerve gas attack horrifying and "effective". Military/security professionals, after the disaster cleared, would have breathed a collective sigh of relief that there were so few casualties given the quantity of toxin used in the attack. (The fact that the sarin was dropped to the ground, in packets that were punctured by sharpened umbrella tips, might have had something to do with the ineffectiveness of the attack. To be more effective, aerosol dispersion would have been necessary.) Kagetenshi, undoubtedly, wasn't attempting to assert that sarin was useless or harmless, but that simple explosives, easier to manufacture and deploy than sarin, are more cost/effort effective from the viewpoint of a terrorist whose aim is to kill. |
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Sep 16 2006, 03:45 PM
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#14
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Yep. I'm pretty much thoroughly sick of arguing with people right now. I do it because sometimes it needs to be done. Except about the rules. That part's purely personal enjoyment.
Ish. The thing about aerosol dispersion is they'd either have had to rig up complicated automated sprayers (and only hit the people in the initial distribution anyway) or carry it themselves (and pretty much guarantee exposure—this wasn't a suicide attack) and still only hit a few dozen extra people (people generally try to avoid getting sprayed with things, even if they aren't dangerous). They could have gotten a higher death toll, but nothing that a backpack with a bomb in it each couldn't have accomplished for a fraction of the cost and effort. The point isn't that chemical weapons won't kill people, it's that only real armies have the facilities to make chemical weapons kill people any better or more horribly than ordinary explosives. Sure it's a so-called "weapon of mass destruction", but pretty much only nuclear weapons will scale down to the level where a small organization can still use that mass destructiveness more effectively than a build-with-material-from-Home-Despot bomb. So yeah. Basic take-home message: sarin in the hands of an army = bad news. Sarin in the hands of a "terrorist" organization = about the same as $200 in currency and a hardware/garden supply store available in the hands of a "terrorist" organization. Don't fear the chemicals. This has been your friendly local soapbox for the past two days, we now return you to your regularly scheduled programming. ~J |
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Sep 16 2006, 08:50 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 858 Joined: 25-August 03 From: Braunschweig, North German League, Allied German States Member No.: 5,537 |
And AFAIK the Sarin attack was in fact meant to prevent a planned police raid on the cult's HQ (that Aum had somehow gotten wind of) by keeping the police busy elsewhere. |
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Sep 17 2006, 02:07 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
You obviously haven't read too many of Kagetenshi's posts then. |
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Sep 17 2006, 02:15 AM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,640 Joined: 6-June 04 Member No.: 6,383 |
Kagetenshi is the man. I wish that more people would look at terrorism rationally instead of being easily manipulated.
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Sep 17 2006, 03:46 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 113 Joined: 16-October 03 Member No.: 5,725 |
While I have been digging into various topics as far back as they go, I readily admit that I have looked at a little less than a hundred out of the many thousands since I started monitoring this board consistently a couple of weeks ago. Kagetenshi's posts in those topics were only a fraction of what I read, so yes, "obviously" I have not read a great many of this user's posts. However, I have monitored and posted more extensively to other RPG message boards that, how to say it, on occasion are somewhat fractious. I have seen the accusation in question before on those boards, and that is why I put my two cents in. |
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Sep 17 2006, 08:37 AM
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#19
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
I've found Kagetenshi's posts here and elsewhere to be quite interesting. And in so far as he provides me with more information than I had before and things to think about, I'd say he is helping. Dumpshock frequently has a sub-topic running through a thread. Given that we're a community of sorts, it's interesting to see how we all feel about things other than Recoil Modifiers, etc. |
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Sep 17 2006, 10:45 AM
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#20
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Chemical weapons, in general, work best in the area denial role and even then they are susecptable to unpredictable envriomental conditions.
As for the cult, pre-awakening spirit activity is canon. It is possible that both groups are ran by the same free spirit. |
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Sep 17 2006, 02:09 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
Look, I asked Kagetenshi a question and he fraggin' answered it. Geez, get back on topic.
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Sep 17 2006, 03:30 PM
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#22
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Don't you ever get tired of arguing with people? |
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Sep 19 2006, 11:04 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 355 Joined: 24-August 02 From: Magna, Ute Nation Member No.: 3,166 |
He He, good one. |
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Sep 20 2006, 01:34 PM
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#24
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Prime Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,577 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gwynedd Valley PA Member No.: 1,221 |
knock it off guys. stay on topic.
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Sep 20 2006, 01:39 PM
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#25
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Don't you ever get tired of staying on topic? |
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