 Dikote, Any rules until Augmented? |
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 Sep 19 2006, 09:01 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895  |
While I can find several posts in SR4 forums mentioning Dikote (clearly people still use it), I cant find anything in BBB that references it, nor any threads here on SR4 stats/mechanics.
Considering I just got a Dikoted Tanto trying to help my game master out. Now in truth considering that my blades skill is Zero :-) I doubt I will be using it any time soon. (not far that matter would I use a gift save dire emergency). Still was wondering what if any others had used for the mechanics for Dikote™ in SR4. Peace |
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Sep 19 2006, 09:16 AM
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#2
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
For Weapons:
+0/-3 For Armour: +1/+1 |
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Sep 19 2006, 09:26 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 615 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,895 |
Serbitar so a Dikote Tanto:
reach - damage (str/2+1)P AP: -4 no increase to actual 'damage' just increase in armor penetration? Peace |
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Sep 19 2006, 09:27 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
+1/+1 for armor, huh?
Seems like Dikote got a pretty big downgrade in protective efficiency over 10 years. I think a +2/+2 would still come up short to the former awesomeness of reducing your BodySoak TN by 1. |
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Sep 19 2006, 10:13 AM
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#5
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
I personally do not like "super upgrades".
I was asked for my stats, so I gave them. |
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Sep 19 2006, 10:26 AM
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#6
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
None at all. Dikote was what the FirePower ammunition was... a fix for the problem of melee weapons doing not enough damage. Ultrahard surface enhancements are nice, but they don't improve overall effectiveness of modern materials enough to justify any game effects. |
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 Sep 19 2006, 11:13 AM
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#7
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,503 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
I would probably do it like this:
Dikote™ on blades: DV - AP -1 Dikote™ on armor: no effect Bye Thanee |
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Sep 19 2006, 02:05 PM
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#8
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Target Group: Members Posts: 9 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,054 |
But are this rules official or homemade ones?
And another question: how much it cost and what availability should have? |
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Sep 19 2006, 02:09 PM
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#9
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
There are no official rules for Dikote ATM.
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Sep 19 2006, 05:43 PM
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#10
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
If you put a super-hard coating on a fairly rigid and strong surface it should allow the armor to resist penetrators much more effectively. Essentially what face hardening did in the early 20th century. So high velocity small caliber penetrators shatter on impact. Basically you could end up where "standard bullets" will go through someone’s armor and AP rounds won't. Ignoring that small caliber APDS rounds don't work in the real world, I'd think a small caliber APDS round is even more likely to be affected by this than AP bullets. "Since the later part of the 19th century, armor manufacturers clearly understood that it was possible to harden armor to a point that it could withstand just about any attack. However, as its hardness increased, its toughness decreased. Really hard armor would be so brittle that it would more than likely shatter when hit by a projectile." "The answer was face-hardened armor. An American invented a process where the face of armor could be hardened without affecting the overall toughness of the armor behind it. When high-velocity AP projectiles struck face-hardened armor plates, they had a tendency to shatter." http://www.lostbattalion.com/t-pz_panzerfact1.aspx |
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Sep 19 2006, 05:45 PM
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#11
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,503 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
The problem is... SR4 armor isn't rigid and strong.
Doesn't really sound like ultra-hardened surfaces are common in there. Bye Thanee |
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Sep 19 2006, 05:50 PM
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#12
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
There is that. You'd need it on a metalic armor, like steel or titanium I'd think. Might work on carbon fiber, but materials science isn't close to what I got my degree in. Hmm, I'd bet that military grade armor (or whatever it was called in cannon companion) would server as an effective armor for this. Too bad it's typically in the hands of the opposition. |
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Sep 19 2006, 05:51 PM
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#13
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Well, at least that's what was hoped for light armor. Let's just say that coatings of that thickness don't really impress bullets. |
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Sep 19 2006, 06:19 PM
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#14
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Boron carbide is already harder than the tungsten carbide penetrators of small arms armor piercing bullets, but apparently M993 AP rounds still go through without shattering. Would have to wait on Cray74 or someone else to confirm that, but I figure a few extra fractions of Mohs in an extremely thin layer wouldn't make those penetrators much more likely to shatter.
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Sep 19 2006, 06:26 PM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Dikote could work on the plates that are optional on some armors.
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Sep 19 2006, 06:33 PM
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#16
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Those plates are nearly as hard as Dikote itself... and Dikote only adds a very thin layer. It would be hard to even measure the difference... |
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Sep 19 2006, 06:51 PM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
After searching for some absolute hardness figures for these materials, my conclusion is that they are all Really Fucking Hard on the AE-HFH-scale.
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Sep 19 2006, 07:29 PM
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#18
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
The "Austere Emancipator - Hard Fucking Hardness" scale?
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Sep 19 2006, 07:36 PM
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#19
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
Almost. It's Austere Emancipator's How Fucking Hard (Is This Shit) scale. It is approximately equal to Lots on the Vickers hardness scale and I Don't Know, Plenty? on the Rockwell A-scale.
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Sep 19 2006, 07:59 PM
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#20
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
By 2070, wouldn't Dikote already be fairly ubiquitous in materials in which hardness is a factor? Kinda like teflon today.
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Sep 19 2006, 08:00 PM
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#21
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Diamond age? |
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Sep 19 2006, 08:13 PM
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#22
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Ow. |
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Sep 19 2006, 11:45 PM
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#23
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 171 Joined: 5-February 05 Member No.: 7,053 |
While I dislike Dikote and all it represents as much as the next GM, this idea of "surface hardening to counteract penetrators" is interesting.
What if Dikote on armour provided "AP resistance"? Basically, on weapons it increases your AP by two, on armour it *decreases* the AP of any incoming attacks by two. Given the outrageous cost and the fact that it can only be added to "rigid" armours (always a fun argument, that one, players like Dikoting anything which has the word "plate" in the description), that seems balanced. Whether it's realistic enough for the gun nuts around about the place is another question. |
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Sep 19 2006, 11:57 PM
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#24
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,556 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Seattle Member No.: 98 |
If you ignore the actual description/physics of Dikote, it's not that bad of a thing, gameplaywise. An incredibly expensive treatment that makes weapons and armor somewhat more effective? Uh, okay.
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Sep 20 2006, 12:22 AM
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#25
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Those of us who really care don't play SR. It's really awful on guns. |
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