Burning Up and Burning Out, Burntout Mage as a Starting Character Options

[Cirlot]

How do you play a mage on the way out? And why would you play one in the first place?

To me Shadowrun has, at its core, a few basic questions that a character has to answer for themselves, questions about the nature of the world (constructed vs. natural, technology vs. magic) about morality and governance. How a character answers these questions says alot about them, and their role in this future history we play in.

I'm making a character, my first 4th edition one, actually, and I want to take a character who is a thing of magic, a magus, and strip it away and see how he reacts. The cause for this is going to be the invasion of the technological - he will have cyberware, effectively repairs and reconstruction from a run gone hideously bad which left him broken. I plan to start him off in game a few months or maybe a year after the change, still trying to adapt to a life he didn't choose on the side of the country he doesn't know.

Thing is, I don't know how to do it. I've cobbled together what I think is an effective compromise, allowing for a balance in the technological and the magical, giving the character plenty of options in how to grow, but I have no idea how it will actually play - I've never been in a 4th edition group before, and in honestly, while I've followed Shadowrun for years the last time I played the setting it was actually in a conversion to R.Talsorian's Cyberpunk 2020, and the last book I owned was a used copy of 1st Edition. So, if you could critique what I have, I'd be grateful.

First, the game I'm joining has a few special rules: contacts cost 2 fewer bp to purchase, negative traits/flaws are not allowed, but to compensate characters start with 430 bp. And in game, ALL DV's save drain and black ICE are +2, and physical damage is not reduced to stun if the DV is less than the resisting armor. My understanding is that, bp changes aside, this will make for a more lethal game.

Name: Ethan Gray
Metatype: Human

Attributes (200 BP)
Body 3
Agility 3 (4)
Reaction 3 (4)
Strength 3 (4)
Charisma 4
Intuition 4
Logic 4
Willpower 4

Special Attributes (30 BP)
Magic 4 (2)*
Edge 2

Derived Attributes
Essence: 4.0
Initiative (Astral): 8 (8)
IP (Astral: 1 (3)
Physical Damage: 10
Stun Damage: 10

Active Skills (138 BP)
Spellcasting (Combat) 5 (+2)
Conjuring Group
Banishing 4
Binding 4
Summoning 4
Counterspelling 4
Pistols 3
Blades (Swords) 2 (+2)
Unarmed Combat (Martial Arts) 2 (+2)
Influence Group
Con 2
Etiquette 2
Leadership 2
Negotiation 2
Perception 2

Knowledge Skills Cost: 24 bp (free)
Assensing* 2
Corporate Security Procedures 2
Lone Star Procedures 2
Magical Theory 4

Languages
English (N)
Spanish 3
Japanese 3
Sperethiel 2
Or'zet 2
Latin 2

Spells Cost: 18 bp
Improved Invisibility
Increase Reflexes
Levitate
Manaball
Manabolt
Powerball

Cyberware:
Aluminum Bone Lacing
Commlink
Transys Avalon w/ OS Iris Orb,
Sim Module modified for Hot Sim
Data Jack
Reaction Enhancer I

Bioware:
Muscles Augmentation I
Muscle Toner I

Qualities
Magician 15 bp

Gear & Lifestyle 25 bp (125,000 Nuyen)
Colt Manhunter w/ Quickdraw Holster, Silencer & Smartgun Link (10 clips Regular Ammo, 5 Fletchette), Actioneer Business Clothes (5/3), Armor Clothing (4/0), Lined Coat (6/4), AR gloves, Contact Lenses (w/ Image Link, Smartgun Link), Glasses (w/ Low Light, Flare Compensation), Earbud (Audio Enhancement 3, Spatial Recognition), Subvocal Mike, Novatech Airware w/ OS Renraku Ichi & Sim Module, Magical Lodge (Force 5), Fake SIN (Level 4, Corporate), Fake SIN (Level 4), Concealed Carry Permit x 2 (Fake License 4), Magicians License x 2 (Fake License 4), 4 Credsticks.

Low Lifestyle (1 Month)

Counterspelling Foci (Level 1) (1 bp to bond)
Power Foci (Level 1) (1 bp)
Weapon Foci - Katana (Level 2) (2 bp)

Contacts: NA (can't think of any 1/1 contacts worth adding, and given the background I'm positing he will just have relocated to the game area within the past month or two).

A quick check on my arithmetic: he purchased magic at 4 with a max threshold of 6 prior to cyber implantation. After the essence loss his effective magic has been reduced to 2 and the max threshold is 4.

Also, I included assessing as a knowledge skill on the theory that implanting the commlink and other headware screwed with Grays sense of astral perception. he can still see astrally but has to learn to reinterpret what he sees. Or, more pragmatically, I didn't have the points for an active skill but I wanted to indicate it in part of his background.

In terms of background, I have plenty of ideas, and the personality is essentially set in my head. My immediate concern is if this character would be viable in a standard campaign: with a magic of 2, the max successes for a spellcasting test would be 2, or 4 if he overcasts. His dice pools are largely in the 8-10 range in his specialized areas, 6 for pretty much everything else. Having not played under the new system I'm unsure whether or not this is a large liability or not.

Also, I'm not sure what the effects of overcasting would be given the extent of cyberware in his system. I've toyed with the idea of having the GM manifest physical drain as burns or other heat-related damage from the magic channeling itself/targeting the foreign systems in his body. If he really botched it I could see having to pay to have the cyber systems repaired (specifically I see the aluminum bone lacing as a conduit for this, with a critical glitch at a high enough force possibility causing liquefaction of parts of the metal reinforcements.)

As for negative traits, even though I don't get points for it, I'm strongly considering giving him the spirit bane defect and a mild to severe addiction to Psyche. For the former, I might even broaden it to say he pissed of an entire totem/mentor spirit group - having had a spirit mentor prior to the implantation who then turned against Gray for allowing the mangling/corruption of his "inviolate soul," though at present this is just an idle notion. The Psyche addiction is a compensatory mechanism I'd wager, a chemical adjunct to him trying to reclaim the magician he was.

Ultimately, I think, provided the character can survive, he is poised to go in a couple of directions: regaining his old abilities is possible, but there definitely a cap on how far he can progress: given the amount of augmentation he has, initiation seems simply out of the question. Or, it is quite possible the extensive amount of overcasting could drive him to loose what magic he has and turn him entirely mundane. He seems poised for a change, or several, and whether he thrives or falls will likely depend on the next few runs.

So, any thoughts?

[P.S. First post!]

[Ancient History]

Well, you've hit most of the significant points with a magician on the way of burn-out: cyberware and bioware, several foci, and drug use. Depending on the way the campaign develops, several possible plots might come up:

• Essence loss due to more implants
• Addiction to drugs increasing and leading to Essence loss
• Buying more foci to support his failing magical abilities and leading to Focus Addiction
• Initiation to offset loss of magical abilities
• Switching from drugs to magical compounds
• Final burn-out leading to an interest in the Aleph Society as a means of recovering his magic

[Cold-Dragon]

Indeed, you have plenty of openings to muck yourself up real good in any direction.

As far as overcasting to cause issues. Overcasting is magical trauma caused by energies you couldn't control fully. Granted, you are still giving direction, and if you do it right, that wild energy won't hurt you (successful drain check and all that). Not much you can do to burn yourself out there other than causing yourself to constantly bleed out and need medical attention (which might affect the cyberware at the flesh connections, which in turn could cause essense loss).

Now a fun thing to consider is spontaneously regaining bodily parts which might encourage essence restoration. It's not a true SR rule (ultimately, anything outside of cyber/bioware that affects essence is subject to the GM's choice, even with drugs), but I have always considered replacing lost body bits with genuine things (such as cloned parts and the regeneration power of spirits) may fix such things.

Better still, in the case of a spirit with regeneration, if you were to ever benefit from such a thing from a high force spirit, you might find yourself suddenly kicking off every negative penalty on yourself (at least until your addictions get you back on it).

Of course, then you might suffer from regeneration addiction. XD

All sorts of fun...Or else when you burn out, you could turn to such desperate steps to gain your magic back as it gets harder and harder to initiate yourself to keep those points.

[hyzmarca]

Taking a mentor spirit for a spirit bane isn't a very good idea. It doesn't fit with the flavor at all. Mentors are more nebulous concepts than actual beings.

One thing to consider is that the path of the burnout of very close to the path of the corrupted. If he is desperate to hold onto his waning power he might find himself making compromise after compromise. First, a pact with weak but melvolant free shadow spirit, which grows from something harmless to something quite deadly as he feeds it first his karma and then the karma of others. Over time, he seeks out new and more effective ways to stretch out his powers, which might lead to the Sacrificing metamagic or a pact with a blood spirit to obtain Essence Drain.

[venenum]

Just a quick question. Why did you give him hacking stuff, if he has no hacking skills, that is unless it is or flavor.

[Slithery D]

[lorechaser]

Edit:

Reading comprehension is your friend. Or maybe waking up before you post.

Nothing to see here, move along.

[Cirlot]

Duly noted, the Spirit bane idea was something I was just throwing around: the fact is that I don't get any points for negative qualities so it's more about what feel the character should have than any attempt to min-max this sucker to the edge of oblivion. I do see your point about the likelihood/scarcity of running into a magician/shaman from one particular totem, however. Not sure what spirit would be appropriate then though, or if I should just drop that particular direction completely. Though yes, my notion was that magicians of a particular totem would simply react negatively, without apparent cause, that opposing magicians would targethim first in combat; more or less that he woudl be plagued by aspects of that totem for the rest of his natural life unless he made some kind of attonement. Could be animals that dislike him, or, in case of the more hermetic "force" mentor spirits, such as death, magic, the ocean . . . things could just sort of happen. Magic could cause more than normal drain, death could haunt the character, either in the form of lots of near death experiences or the continual loss of friends or loved ones. I think there are possibilities here, but I concur that it isn't really a point/benefit issue.

As for the hacker gear, well, it is partly about style/theme and part curious pragmatism I suppose. I'm looking into playing around with the rules for PANs using the internal vs. external commlinks as a sort of two tier filter: the external commlink (the Novatech) subscribes to the local PAN of wherever the character is, contains the requisite fake ID, licenses and bio information and then filters any relevant requests to the internal commlink, which would contain information on all the characters fake ID's, real contact info, and pretty much anything else the character wanted access to but at the same time wanted kept safe. I'm not sue how hacking into this system would work, or even if the internal commlink would be detected/present if it was running dark, but I'd like to think it would add an extra hurdle to an intruder attempting to hack his gear.

As for why having it in the first place: I dunno, my suspicion was that these sort of low impact PAN toys would be fairly common, given the sheer pervasiveness of AR in SR4. Why internal? Again, it's part of the technology versus magic balancing act, and it helps integrate what the character considers "foreign" into part of himself. Honestly, most of the cyberware purchased, while interesting, could have been done without from a game mechanics point of view: Gray could have walked away with only 1 point of essence loss if I was really determined to get the most bonus for the nuyen. It would be too easy for Gray to just climb back on the magical horse as it were, and spend the rest of his natural life attempting to become what he was: I wanted him to loose something irreplaceable while gaining something new he didn't understand.

[zero skill LPB]

It reads like a really cool concept and you've done an excellent job of fleshing it out. I'd be a bit concerned about playing a character with Body 3, Edge 2 in a house-ruled increased-lethality game, though.

I mean, you've clearly put a lot of thought into the character so it'd be a bummer to see him pasted in the first combat ("They've got a mage! Kill him first!", etc.). Maybe gear some of your cyber/bio towards damage/penalty mitigation?

[Glyph]

Yeah. It is a great concept, and he can eventually either become a mundane who knows more than most about magic (and has a lot of angst to roleplay), or a mage who has struggled back to power, and now has more 'ware and combat skills than most mages. Getting there will be a problem.

At this point, you will have a harder time casting spells than most, but still can't match any combat-oriented character in ranged or melee combat. Great ideas can wind up being frustrating to actually try and play when you find that you can't roll enough dice to resist damage or affect anything.

It depends, though. Even for a more lethal game, he could fit in if everyone else is also playing similar characters, and the opposition is geared towards that. If everyone else plays min-maxed characters who rule combat, then your character might not be as fun to play.

[lorechaser]

Indeed. Without even extra init passes, you're going to be a sidenote in combat. If you're okay with that, or if combat isn't a big focus, you should enjoy it a lot.

If you want to be the guy that's still useful, despite being angsty, you need to at least pick up a sustaining focus to keep increased reflexes going. 8 dice -2 for sustaining isn't much, especially if you only get one stab/spell a round....

[ShadowDragon]

Sounds...challenging. Are you sure you want a character so unorthodox when you're so new to the game? Especially an extra lethal one. Have you checked with the GM about how munchie the other PCs will be and how much combat there will be in the campaign? Your character might make a great PC to roleplay, but he'd get slaughtered in a combat focused campaign. Make sure playstyles won't clash with the GM and other players before you start.

[ShadowDragon]

[Mistwalker]

One way to avoid "geek the mage first" problem, see if your GM has a problem with you using a free action to squeeze the trigger of an automatic or pistol. You won't be aiming at anyone, just firing in the general direction. With the whole point of firing to disguise your "magehood". Targets will most likely believe, at first at least, that you missed.

[Bryce963]

Allright, I may have had some sort of dream, but, a geas can't make up for magic loss due to essence reduction, right? Say, essence was reduced to 5, you had a magic of 5, now its 4 and your natural max is 5, I got that part, but add a geas in there, that is where it gets a little fuzzy to me.

[lorechaser]

In SR4 Geas are simply things that get put on your magic, per SM. You can't increase magic via Geas, simply get a Geas that restricts your magic. If you don't perform the geas, you lose magic until you atone.

It's also a neg. quality to get BP, but that doesn't apply to this game, apparently.

[Cirlot]

I think part of the problem here is that I'm not sure about what a "typical" power level in SR 4 is: I've based my target dice pools largely on the template characters in the main book. The average spellcasting pool for shamans or mages in the core book is 8-10, and the combat mage has 6-9 (including smartlink bonuses) in his weapon skills. Most of the non augmented combat classes have dice pools in the range of 8-10, and augmented combat classes (be they adept or street sams) tend towards 10-14 in their favored weapon classes.

Similarly in On the Run (My thanks to Winterhawk for such a wonderful run/resource, my curses to Winterhawk for such a wonderful run/resource that I had to buy it, read it and re-read it before my GM so much so that he won't run it for me) the various antagonists dice pools run the gamut of 4-6 for low level grunts, 6-8 for the mid-level antagonists and 8-12 for the high level antagonists/end game scenario (baring one outlier).

At present Gray falls between the extremes, slinging spells (albeit weak ones) at 10 to 8 dice, and throwing down with smartlinked pistols at 9 dice, a blade foci at 10 and physical damage unarmed combat at 8 dice (as well as soaking as an effective body of 5 thanks to the aluminium bone lace). That and he doesn't trip over his own tongue and doesn't have to default when lying to save his skin. Where I concede he hurts compared to both On the Run and main book combat characters is in the initiative passes. Frankly, I'm not sure where else I can squeeze to scrape up the 20K for a level 2 sustaining foci without ditching existing goods.

To me, this character actually looks marginally competent: how wrong am I in this? I realize that, just from what I've seen on this forum, that characters can be built with 14+dice in an area of specialty, pushing into the high teens if you're really trying: how common are those builds in game?

[lorechaser]

I play in a game that's some what Munchy, I have to admit. But my character rolls 19 dice for primary focus, and 15 for secondary. My alts roll about 17 per. My teammates (who I admit I helped twink), roll in the high teens for their focus skills.

But really, I think you have to twink in SR for the most part. Even the corp sec guards are ex-paramils with smart links and dermal armor. When a troll rolls 16 dice to soak (7 bod, Armor Jacket, +1 dermal), you need a massive dice poll to hit 'em.

[Glyph]

I think the more pertinent question is: how common will those builds be in your game? Let's face it, the archetypes in the book are nice as general examples, but are not put together very well. Most players can come up with characters who roll in the high teens or low twenties for their specialty, and who are still not crippled in other areas. And your GM will adjust the NPC's accordingly, either by upping their stats or increasing their numbers.

So you might want to get together with the other players and see what kind of characters they are running (in my opinion, every group should do this - avoids headaches later on). They may very well be making equally quirky characters. If they are making combat monsters, though, ask yourself how important it is to you to not feel (relatively) useless during combat.

[Shrike30]

The game I'm playing in has a few high-end rolls going on... I toss 12 dice with a (smartlinked) Steyr TMP, and my Athletics pool is 15 (or 21 for jumping :ork ), but that character is a "sam" with a pretty decent Agility and selection of gear, specced towards doing ridiculous stunts like jumping onto moving vehicles (from down the block) or going out 5th floor windows without trouble. My alt throws 10 dice on a couple of his skills (and I think 12 on visual Perception).

10-15 dice in your "primary" skill(s) seems to be pretty typical around here, with the range being largely based on things like mods from 'ware, specialization, and tracer ammunition. Twinking beyond that is certainly doable, but you start using points inefficiently or being heavily gear/power/spell dependent in most cases (such as Skate's 21 dice in Jumping, which came at the cost of a chunk of Essence and :nuyen: ). "Secondary" skills usually float in the 6-12 range, with "things he doesn't suck at" seeming to be around 4-8.

[Butterblume]

Just yesterday I started to build a mystic adept with 'ware. I will be awhile at it, mainly for reading street magic ;). She will have magic 2(1), but I am not treating her as burnout, but as recently awakened. This should satisfy both my roleplay and my min-maxer heart ;).

OT: I agree with Shrike30. Right now her highest skills are at 12 dice: Infiltration, pistols (with smartlink), and perception (visual/audio).

A few secondary skills at 8-9 dice, a few other skills as low as three.
I think that level is reasonable good.

[Cirlot]

What sort of threat level are you facing for those characters though? By the sounds of it you could take on a Tir Ghost squad without breaking much of a sweat.

Also, how does your character progress from that point on? Is there still room for advancement at a reasonable pace or have you effectively topped out at character gen? I suppose the real question here is playstyle/ character design: is it better to start at a near legendary/supra heroic level or work your way up to it from something more mundane?

Thing is, I want Gray to be in over his head: I think, against normal mundanes he would be fine:a few low level corp squads and the like would pose a threat but not be life threatening, and most normal gangers wouldn't be cause for alarm. I want him to have to be on his toes around the megacorps, and have it be the fight of his life when the assualt team storms the place or he attracts the absolute wrong kind of attention from an up and coming wyrm. And when he does get pushed to the wall I think there should be a insane amount of ego and gumption in him taking on the bigger guy rather than running, to the point of him seemingly knowingly throwing his life away rather than giving in. Those kinds of choices have a narrative power I like. If he's already top tier, those choices seem less potent to me.

Too much love for the underdog, I guess.

On a complete digressions: am I right in thinking that, barring further essence loss, Gray would need roughly 18 Karma to bump his magic up to 4, making him a respectable, but not outstanding, mage again? That's what, 3-6 runs or so?

Lastly, for the initiative pass issue: I don't think I can squeeze the 4 bp neccissary for the 20k level 2 sustaining focus, and I've already placed the weapon foci as part of his backstory. So that leaves the cheap and dirty way eft for him: drugs. My question is how much do they cost, and what would you recomend: It seems to be a choice between Cram, Jazz and Kamikaze, the first two being more likely to be available and also less destructive. I'm leaning toward Jazz at present, for the IPs, plus the already noted preference for Psyche. For whatever reason I just can't see him on deepweed. He IS a smoker though, even though I have no idea why at present.

[Slithery D]

[Shrike30]

You could always save binding it for after he starts :P

[fistandantilus4....]

Since you're cahracter's already going to Psyche, I'd recommend seeing if you can squeeze in an extra contact for perhaps other combat drugs like Jazz to increase initiative ability, or talismonger for magical goodies. Should be interesting to see what happens the first time he downs an Immortal Flower though.

Really though, the character could be very interesting as long as you have the right mindset for it. The whole Role playing vs Roll playing. Just keep in mind that you're a "1st level mage". You're not particularily powerful, but generally smarter than the rest. So plan, use tactics, know that a bullet can put you down, so don't get shot at , or you'd damn well better find cover if you do. Pay attention to your equipment, and make friendly with your groups street sam.