Astral forms and dual-nature Q, If an astral form grabs someone... Options

[Cold-Dragon]

...who is dual-natured, can they actually affect them bodily - like pick them up and choke them?

It just occured to me a moment ago, and when I thought about it, I couldn't think up any direct line immediately disallowing that. True, astral combat uses astral combat (or else i's spell/power flinging) but could it be done?

Be kinda amusing, lifting someone up by the neck who is perceiving, when you're only in astral form.

I'm merely curious: If there is a definite 'no' to this, I'd like to know if someone recalls it.

[Rotbart van Dain...]

Astral entities can't move dual natured ones around... check the awakend ivy in SM.

[Cold-Dragon]

Hrm, fair point. ^-^; I forgot about that. I will check for other references later on, but thanks.

[hyzmarca]

Astral only objects may not be able to move dual-natured beings but they can support dual natured beings. A percieving magician could sit on an astral-only chair, for example, and a ghoul could climb an astral stepladder.

[Mistwalker]

Hmm, how do you make an astral ladder? or even a plank?

Can just see an astral perceiving char rulling along an astral plank, 50 stories up, to cross the street and get away from the guards.

[Cold-Dragon]

I know a mana barrier will certainly block them at least, but now that I think on barriers, if you are forced through it, you don't get smooshed, so even if you were to try and run along the top of a barrier, you'd just be forced fall through and suffer the consequences.

So I guess it's a definite no now. ^-^;. Granted, I think running into a barrier while dual natured will still make you do the wall effect and fall back - you just need a constant effort to get pushed through.

Of course..if you could run along a astral platform whle dual natured....that'd be sweet! Weird as heck, but sweet!

[Mistwalker]

How about stepping it up a notch
:D

Have your astral spirit hold out it's hands for you to walk on and keep moving it's hands so that you can walk on air, or on water, or on what ever you want.

[Cold-Dragon]

It'd be easier to stand on the spirit like a surfboard and let it move then, rather than hands. You never know though!

That would improve the theory of holding a person up even if you can't move them though - you'd just have to get in their path. ^-^;

Somehow I dont' think that's a loophole.

[FrankTrollman]

The creation of an Astral Barrier is a special power of Awakened Ivy, not a general capability of all dual natured things. FAB II, for example, is dual and can be moved by astral forms.

You do have an Astral Strength, and you can pick ghouls up and hit people with them. In either direction, if it comes to that. They do Body/2 damage against physical or astral targets.

-Frank

[hyzmarca]

[Cold-Dragon]

[Eryk the Red]

Logic tells me that if you can touch something, and you can strike it and affect it "physically", there doesn't seem to be any reason you shouldn't be able to lift it, given enough strength. Honestly, it just wouldn't make any sense to me if astral forms couldn't move each other by force (in a sense, every form having infinite inertia that can only be altered by the form's own intention). I just find that difficult to imagine, and if I can't imagine it, I don't want to play it, because then it's just an exercise in game rules. So I assume that astral strength works pretty much like physical strength. (With a lot more guesswork about weight. I would probably just do an attribute comparison or opposed test, strength to "body" (willpower) or some other number, like Structure.) So, by extension, I would figure an astral body could lift a dual natured body.