Movement and Actions in Combat

Movement and Actions in Combat

MadDogMaddux View Member Profile	Sep 27 2006, 02:35 AM Post #1
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 9,349	Can a character move, fire, and finish movement in one Initiative Pass? Specifically, can a character move LESS than its movement for the pass, cast a spell, then finish movement?

FriendoftheDork View Member Profile	Sep 27 2006, 10:47 AM Post #2
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,288 Joined: 4-September 06 From: The Scandinavian Federation Member No.: 9,300	Movement and action is simultaneously (rather than divided as in D&D), so the movement penalty applies to firing guns if any movement took place in the same action phase. So even if a character moves, then stops to fire, he gets the movement penalty to his shot (of any). In the nest phase (or initative pass, the same thing) there would be no penalty.

Thanee View Member Profile	Sep 27 2006, 11:41 AM Post #3
jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 8,981 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463	Yep, that should work. Basically you act while you are moving, so you should be able to decide at what point your shot/spell/etc goes off. You could, for example, step out of cover, shoot and step back into cover. But others might shoot you, too, while you are out. The movement doesn't happen all at once, while you act, it is stretched over the whole initiative pass, basically. Bye Thanee

deek

Sep 27 2006, 03:22 PM

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QUOTE (FriendoftheDork)

Movement and action is simultaneously (rather than divided as in D&D), so the movement penalty applies to firing guns if any movement took place in the same action phase. So even if a character moves, then stops to fire, he gets the movement penalty to his shot (of any).

In the nest phase (or initative pass, the same thing) there would be no penalty.

There is not a penalty for just moving though. As far as I can tell, an attacker gets a -2 when running. If you are going at your normal walking rate, there is no penalty.

GrinderTheTroll

Sep 27 2006, 06:34 PM

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QUOTE (MadDogMaddux)

Can a character move, fire, and finish movement in one Initiative Pass?

Specifically, can a character move LESS than its movement for the pass, cast a spell, then finish movement?

We've divided up movement rates by 4, then always assumed 4 IP happend per Combat Turn. This means 1 IP people move on each of the 4 IP but are only able to take actions during IP #1. 2 IP people move on each of the 4 IP but are only able to take actions during IP #1, #2, etc. Usually IP #4 is just movement for most participants.

This also makes figuring out how much you can move per IP static instead of a variable amount when IP available are < 4.

deek

Sep 27 2006, 07:30 PM

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QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll)

QUOTE (MadDogMaddux @ Sep 26 2006, 07:35 PM)

Can a character move, fire, and finish movement in one Initiative Pass?

Specifically, can a character move LESS than its movement for the pass, cast a spell, then finish movement?

We've divided up movement rates by 4, then always assumed 4 IP happend per Combat Turn. This means 1 IP people move on each of the 4 IP but are only able to take actions during IP #1. 2 IP people move on each of the 4 IP but are only able to take actions during IP #1, #2, etc. Usually IP #4 is just movement for most participants.

This also makes figuring out how much you can move per IP static instead of a variable amount when IP available are < 4.

We started out doing that as well, basically taking all movement rates and dividing by 4 and letting players move that distance each pass. My players didn't like that though, so we divided it by 3 instead (as that was the highest IP anyone in combat had). Apparently they didn't like the idea of using the fourth IP for movement only...

It certainly makes things a lot more difficult on a battle mat. I have been using 2m hexes in most encounters, so not only do you need to figure out 1/3 of 10m, you then need to estimate where that is on the battle mat for movement.

Obviously, we do a lot of estimations...and being an American, I basically then have to convert 1m to approximately 3 feet to understand what it all means:)

GrinderTheTroll

Sep 27 2006, 09:13 PM

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QUOTE (deek)

QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll @ Sep 27 2006, 01:34 PM)

QUOTE (MadDogMaddux @ Sep 26 2006, 07:35 PM)

Can a character move, fire, and finish movement in one Initiative Pass?

Specifically, can a character move LESS than its movement for the pass, cast a spell, then finish movement?

We've divided up movement rates by 4, then always assumed 4 IP happend per Combat Turn. This means 1 IP people move on each of the 4 IP but are only able to take actions during IP #1. 2 IP people move on each of the 4 IP but are only able to take actions during IP #1, #2, etc. Usually IP #4 is just movement for most participants.

This also makes figuring out how much you can move per IP static instead of a variable amount when IP available are < 4.

We started out doing that as well, basically taking all movement rates and dividing by 4 and letting players move that distance each pass. My players didn't like that though, so we divided it by 3 instead (as that was the highest IP anyone in combat had). Apparently they didn't like the idea of using the fourth IP for movement only...

It certainly makes things a lot more difficult on a battle mat. I have been using 2m hexes in most encounters, so not only do you need to figure out 1/3 of 10m, you then need to estimate where that is on the battle mat for movement.

Obviously, we do a lot of estimations...and being an American, I basically then have to convert 1m to approximately 3 feet to understand what it all means:)

Ha! We struggle with the metric conversations as well but we use 1m squares/hexes since 1m seems to be the quantized amount of movement allowed.

We do use larger scales 1:10, 1:100 for strategic maps and 1:1 for tactical encounters.

ShadowDragon

Sep 27 2006, 09:26 PM

Post #8

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QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll)

QUOTE (MadDogMaddux @ Sep 26 2006, 07:35 PM)

Can a character move, fire, and finish movement in one Initiative Pass?

Specifically, can a character move LESS than its movement for the pass, cast a spell, then finish movement?

We've divided up movement rates by 4, then always assumed 4 IP happend per Combat Turn. This means 1 IP people move on each of the 4 IP but are only able to take actions during IP #1. 2 IP people move on each of the 4 IP but are only able to take actions during IP #1, #2, etc. Usually IP #4 is just movement for most participants.

This also makes figuring out how much you can move per IP static instead of a variable amount when IP available are < 4.

We do the same, but characters can delay their IPs to the last ones. So someone with 1 IP can delay to the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th IP if they don't use it on the 1st. We also use 1m hexes - I don't see a reason not to.

deek, so what do you do if someone wants to spend edge to get a forth pass?

deek

Sep 27 2006, 10:12 PM

Post #9

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QUOTE (ShadowDragon)

We do the same, but characters can delay their IPs to the last ones. So someone with 1 IP can delay to the 2nd, 3rd, or 4th IP if they don't use it on the 1st. We also use 1m hexes - I don't see a reason not to.

deek, so what do you do if someone wants to spend edge to get a forth pass?

Obviously, that problem hasn't occured...yet. I will certainly bring that concern up, as I would rather just always divide movement by 4 and just be done with it. I have no problem with always having 4 IPs to flip though, especially since the last one will normally be movement only.

That certainly would cause problems if someone spent edge for that fourth pass...I think my players will reconsider...

1m hexes...I might give that a try. My players are used to 5' hexes when we play DnD, so I was trying to keep distances about the same, plus at 1m/hex, a lot of my maps are going to be huge!!!

GrinderTheTroll

Sep 28 2006, 03:48 AM

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QUOTE (deek)

1m hexes...I might give that a try. My players are used to 5' hexes when we play DnD, so I was trying to keep distances about the same, plus at 1m/hex, a lot of my maps are going to be huge!!!

QUOTE

We do use larger scales 1:10, 1:100 for strategic maps and 1:1 for tactical encounters.

We only break out the 1m squares when it's necessary so I tend to have a few maps of various scales handy.

Nightwalker450 View Member Profile	Oct 27 2006, 02:02 AM Post #11
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 698 Joined: 26-October 06 From: Iowa, United States Member No.: 9,720	Dividing up movement over multiple passes works well, but what about when melee mixes with ranged? Trying to come up with a ruling for this, if a non-wired melee person rushes a wired or adept with a gun. This is how I see this happening Melee person uses a simple action to run in the first pass, save your other simple action for final pass when you are actually close enough to melee with your opponent... Wired/Adept can fire rounds off at you during every pass still without the melee being in range to actually affect their targeting. Once the melee closes in the final round, can used the saved simple action to melee the wired/adept ranged person. Without this in effect you end up with one of two things happening.. Melee person uses first pass to run 1/4 their speed, and not until the next combat round will he actually be able to effectively melee. (Simple action to run, but impossible to melee from current position) or Melee person covers all their movement in their initial pass and are now close with the ranged attacker for the rest of the combat turn (Attacker in melee -3). Whats the census on this situation?

GrinderTheTroll

Oct 27 2006, 02:24 AM

Post #12

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QUOTE (Nightwalker450)

Dividing up movement over multiple passes works well, but what about when melee mixes with ranged?

Trying to come up with a ruling for this, if a non-wired melee person rushes a wired or adept with a gun. This is how I see this happening

Melee person uses a simple action to run in the first pass, save your other simple action for final pass when you are actually close enough to melee with your opponent...
Wired/Adept can fire rounds off at you during every pass still without the melee being in range to actually affect their targeting.
Once the melee closes in the final round, can used the saved simple action to melee the wired/adept ranged person.

Without this in effect you end up with one of two things happening..
Melee person uses first pass to run 1/4 their speed, and not until the next combat round will he actually be able to effectively melee. (Simple action to run, but impossible to melee from current position)
or
Melee person covers all their movement in their initial pass and are now close with the ranged attacker for the rest of the combat turn (Attacker in melee -3).

Whats the census on this situation?

You can't save your Simple Actions, the best you can do is default your action but even that evaportates when the Phase ends.

There is no issue between Ranged and Melee in terms of movement. You act/move whatever and if you choose not to move during a Phase, you "lose" that movement for the Phase.

ShadowDragon

Oct 27 2006, 03:37 AM

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QUOTE (Nightwalker450 @ Oct 26 2006, 09:02 PM)

Dividing up movement over multiple passes works well, but what about when melee mixes with ranged?

Trying to come up with a ruling for this, if a non-wired melee person rushes a wired or adept with a gun. This is how I see this happening

Melee person uses a simple action to run in the first pass, save your other simple action for final pass when you are actually close enough to melee with your opponent...
Wired/Adept can fire rounds off at you during every pass still without the melee being in range to actually affect their targeting.
Once the melee closes in the final round, can used the saved simple action to melee the wired/adept ranged person.

Without this in effect you end up with one of two things happening..
Melee person uses first pass to run 1/4 their speed, and not until the next combat round will he actually be able to effectively melee. (Simple action to run, but impossible to melee from current position)
or
Melee person covers all their movement in their initial pass and are now close with the ranged attacker for the rest of the combat turn (Attacker in melee -3).

Whats the census on this situation?

Melee uses a complex action. Running is a free action and sprinting is a simple action. I houserule running and sprinting as no action. It gives more value to the running skill, which isn't used much anyway, and gives trolls more of a perk in exchange for me nerfing their base run speed.

Also, by RAW movement is always divided up into passes anyway. If those wired enemies have extra passes they SHOULD be able to shoot up someone charging them. What the smart melee attacker should do is use cover to his advantage as he approaches. The only difference between RAW, and houserules that always divide turns into 4 passes, is 1 extra pass worth of movement for most groups.

Nightwalker450 View Member Profile	Oct 29 2006, 05:09 AM Post #14
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 698 Joined: 26-October 06 From: Iowa, United States Member No.: 9,720	My mix up... Run is free action, and Melee is complex of course. But still the question remains, for splitting up move/pass, instead of move/turn, free actions until the end of the round, then uses his complex action to melee? Even a wired melee won't officially be in range till the end of the combat turn, since wired doesn't change move speed, just number of passes you take actions during.

Kyoto Kid

Oct 29 2006, 05:20 AM

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QUOTE (Thanee)

You could, for example, step out of cover, shoot and step back into cover.
But others might shoot you, too, while you are out. The movement doesn't happen all at once, while you act, it is stretched over the whole initiative pass, basically.

Bye
Thanee

...but, according to the description of Smartlinks in the BBB, you could simply point your gun around the corner and still shoot your target thus eliminating the need for a snap shot.

ShadowDragon

Oct 29 2006, 07:51 AM

Post #16

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QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)

QUOTE (Thanee)

You could, for example, step out of cover, shoot and step back into cover.
But others might shoot you, too, while you are out. The movement doesn't happen all at once, while you act, it is stretched over the whole initiative pass, basically.

Bye
Thanee

...but, according to the description of Smartlinks in the BBB, you could simply point your gun around the corner and still shoot your target thus eliminating the need for a snap shot.

You do this with a -1 penalty. Stepping out of cover is no penalty, but as was mentioned, you risk being shot from a readied action.

ShadowDragon

Oct 29 2006, 07:53 AM

Post #17

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QUOTE (Nightwalker450)

My mix up... Run is free action, and Melee is complex of course. But still the question remains, for splitting up move/pass, instead of move/turn, free actions until the end of the round, then uses his complex action to melee? Even a wired melee won't officially be in range till the end of the combat turn, since wired doesn't change move speed, just number of passes you take actions during.

I see no problem with allowing people to save their IP for the 3rd or 4th of the turn. Realize though that you can only take free actions by using an IP by the RAW. That's why I houseruled running and sprinting as no action.

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