 Jumping from a Moving Vehicle |
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 Sep 28 2006, 05:21 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 351 Joined: 17-February 06 From: San Francisco Member No.: 8,275  |
How do you calculate the damage from that?
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Sep 28 2006, 05:39 PM
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#2
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
Crash Test ...
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Sep 28 2006, 05:42 PM
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#3
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
P 160 Ramming Damage Table.
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Sep 28 2006, 05:45 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 |
I would probably base it on the ramming rules, where the speed you were going at affects the DV (there's a chart for it by the ramming rules). You'd have to decide on a number to use as the "Body" number to calculate damage. I'd probably use the base falling damage DV for the distance fallen (one meter, generally, so DV 2). Actually, double that value. (Slow speeds will halve it, bringing it back down to normal.)
This isn't something that there are rules for in the book, far as I can tell, but this seems like a serviceable solution. |
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Sep 28 2006, 05:50 PM
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#5
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
I'd use the victim's Body, but allow full impact resistance.
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Sep 28 2006, 05:53 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 351 Joined: 17-February 06 From: San Francisco Member No.: 8,275 |
Yeah, I was thinking the 1 meter falling damage modified by the ramming table, but that doesn't seem like enough. If you dive out of a car going full tilt that's still only 4 physical. Multiplying by 2 sounds better, but is even 8 physical enough? |
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Sep 28 2006, 06:01 PM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
The Bigger They Are, The Harder They Fall
It sounds sort of silly to start with, but I believe that the closest to RAW is to Body of the person falling out. Sure this sounds like a really bad deal for high body people, but when you factor in that they'll have propotionally larger dice pools to resist and are able to survive more damage it isn't that bad. Of course you could also tack on the damage from the distance fallen towards the ground, often only 1m but it could be more, to the Body before multiplying. That's going to keep those really low Body people from walking away laughing. |
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Sep 28 2006, 06:06 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 |
I thought about the idea of using the victim's Body to base the damage on, but I have a problem with that because you create a situation where low Body characters can't suffer significant damage, while high Body characters risk death. It's also a little weird to me to base the damage on the same attribute as used to resist it. You're rolling your Body against itself.
That's why when I handle ramming, the attacking vehicle suffers damage based on the defending vehicle's Body, instead of its own. The rule as written seems inelegant and not quite sensible to me. |
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Sep 28 2006, 06:16 PM
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#9
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
you could base it on the Body rating of the planet they're falling onto. if you jump out of a truck on Mercury, you might onl face a DV of a few billion!
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Sep 28 2006, 07:09 PM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Yeah, and that means if instead I aim my head for a descrete object, like a rock, I can get away with a trillion times less damage. Whoot! :grinbig: *thumbs up*
With some other factors involved like Armor and Edge, pretty much. That's why I said tack on the falling distance, and the low Body people don't get off so easy. Of course you could go all Newton on the problem and use the following approximation to determine roughly the equivalent height they would drop from to have that speed. Where x is velocity in meters/second and d is equivalent falling distance in meters: d = 5 * (x/10)^2 So falling from a vehicle traveling 36kph (about 22mph for you Yankees), which is 10m/second, is roughly the same as falling 5 meters. At highway speeds of 100kph, 62mph, that works out to about 45 meters. Pretty close to instadeath for anyone no matter what armor they are wearing or how big their Edge, which seems a bit off the mark. EDIT Actually more than a bit off the mark given that I personally know people that have effectively fallen from a vehicle and much higher speeds than that when they dumped on a motorcycle. I've even personally crashed off a bike at 70kph and then walked 2 miles to phone to get picked up. Using the above formula I should have been facing about 13 boxes of damage. I was wearing boots, a motorcycle leather jacket, jeans and a helmet. I would have had no more than a few aches the next day, and felt nothing much at the time, from the fall except the motorcycle caught and pinned by left foot hyperextending my ankle. |
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Sep 28 2006, 07:13 PM
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#11
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
whats that smell? sarcasm? :silly: |
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Sep 28 2006, 07:18 PM
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#12
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
and i guess the reason of that is that when you fall you impact straight down, splat. but falling out of a car your movement is mostly in the direction the car was traveling at the time of the fall. therefor the energy makes you slide or roll along the ground rather then hitting it head on... so unless you hit a wall, another vehicle, or some other solid object you could in theory get away from a crash at high speed. hmm, have we not talked about this topic some time before? |
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Sep 28 2006, 07:25 PM
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#13
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Likely. It is probably why I just say use the falling guy's Body, tack on the extra for the distance from where on the vehicle they fell to the ground, and be done with it. It all shakes out in the proverbial wash. |
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Sep 28 2006, 07:57 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 351 Joined: 17-February 06 From: San Francisco Member No.: 8,275 |
If we're getting all Newtonian up in here, it's important to note that falling from the sky increases damage exponentially (9.8 meters per second per second), while energy from frictional damage (against the road) increases linearly. The energy of friction is normal force between the two objects times coefficient of friction times distance the two objects are in contact The normal force can be 2P or falling damage from 1 meter. In RL, the coeffcient of friction between a rubber tire and the road is 1.7, so we might as well round that off to 2 for between a Shadowrunner and the road. Then distance should be calculated using that ramming chart: 1 to 20 divide by 2 = 2P 21 to 60 = 4P 61 to 200 = 8P 201+ = 12P 200 meters per turn is about 150 mph or about 240 kph, so this might not be quite potent enough. |
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Sep 28 2006, 08:11 PM
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#15
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
That's why the friction isn't the real problem when you've got clothing to combat it. It's the bashing you take from tumbling or running up against uneven surfaces.
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Sep 28 2006, 08:58 PM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 76 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,131 |
I would allow for a gymnastics test also to reduce the damage by 1 for each hit generated. That way you could tumble out of it some reducing the damage. Especially if they are jumping and prepping for the fall. If they were knocked off you might want to allow for a gymnastics test with half the hits generated to take down the DV by one.. That would be before your regulare damage soak test with body too.
I would hate to see a crit glitch on either test... Crit glitch on your gymnastics test would go like this... You jump from the vehicle and tuck your body preparing to go into a roll and you forget to bring your arms up and land squarely on your head! DV just doubled now make that soak test! Crit glitch on you damage soak test would go like this.. YOu manage to break every bone in your body its amazing you survived! however you will have some serious downtime while trying to heal from all these broken bones! Now might be a good time to invest in some bone lacing to speed things up! |
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Sep 28 2006, 09:03 PM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Not disagreeing with allowing a Gymnastics test, just why. For the most part you want to minimize tumbling. If you watch a crash from Superbike race some time you'll see they aren't barrel rolling. See the above discussion on friction about why this is. If you go into a full barrelroll on the ground at 60mph you're going to end up looking like a burlap bag of tomatoes gone bad. |
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Sep 28 2006, 09:06 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 351 Joined: 17-February 06 From: San Francisco Member No.: 8,275 |
A gymnastics test seems appropriate because you're twisting your body before you land to distribute the force apropriately. If you fail your test, then you land on your arm, face, or chest. If you succeed, you sprawl and distribute the force over your back, butt and legs, and skid face up. |
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Sep 28 2006, 09:08 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Exactly. |
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Sep 28 2006, 09:27 PM
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#20
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Jumping from a driving vehicle doesn't inflict any damage at all. Only the hitting the ground part (sorry, I could not resist) :D.
I know bikers can dismount their vehicles while driving without instant gruesome death. Protective leather clothing with protectors on sensitive areas is prefered. |
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Sep 28 2006, 09:59 PM
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#21
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
Maybe herein lies The Answer™ if you are uncomfortable with just using Body? Roll a Gymnastics Test against a Threshold that varies by speed catagory. On failure the damage numbers you gave are doubled. If they make it the start at the numbers you gave and for every net hit they reduce the pre-soak damage by 1 box. Say: 1 to 20, 2P, Gymnastics Threshold 2 21 to 60 = 4P, Gymnastics Threshold 3 61 to 200 = 8P, Gymnastics Threshold 4 201+ = 12P, Gymnastics Threshold 5 So at 150 mph if cheese-grater boi gets less than 5 hits on his Gymnastic Test he's starting the soak from 24 boxes. He's likely getting carted away, it just being a question of whether it is in a body bag to the morgue or on a gurney to the hospital. If he makes the Gymnastics Test, has say a Body of 6, and is wearing a Combat Jacket and a helmet he's left to soak 12 boxes or less with 16 dice. He'll likely limp away noticable scuffed and bruised. Brutal, but painfully Realistic™ and maybe even a little fun from the tension and the high-fiving if you pull it off. Things are still a bit tense at the 45mph to 150mph range. For the example character and gear I gave, unless he's uncannily athletic, he's going to take at least a couple of boxes of damage, and potentially if he fails the Gymnastics be close to knocked out, or even dead if he has a really low Body. At low speeds if you have any sort of decent Gymnastics and some impact armor rating or high Body you are likely to stick the trick, dust yourself off, and stroll off to the bar for a good stiff shot. Maybe with a bit of roadrash. EDIT These numbers are also probably really good for the driver or rider on a motorcycle that wipes out but doesn't run into anything. |
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Sep 28 2006, 10:09 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 351 Joined: 17-February 06 From: San Francisco Member No.: 8,275 |
That just might work. Gymnastics test to not land on your head, then use 4P as the damage, modified by the ramming table. If you do land poorly, you have to resist twice as much damage.
For shitz n' giggles, I might as well relay why I'm asking this. We ended last night's session by finding out the run we were on was, in fact, not a run at all, but a Dragon getting back at us for stealing some shit from her a few runs ago. My character is "currently" sitting in the back of a car going around 50 to 60 meters per turn (around 45mph), with five dudes on motorcycles about to attack and something unknown but hostile about to attack from inside a tractor trailer. I was thinking it might be best to just dive out on to the pavement and let the rest of the team deal with vehicle combat. |
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Sep 28 2006, 10:16 PM
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#23
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
That does present an interesting quandry. :) Question; are the people on motorcycle coming up from behind? By that I mean will they have an opportunity to run over you. :dead: Because if that's the case you might do better looking for something to toss off the back like cargo, a spare tire, gear, or a fresh dwarf corpse. ;) Also if you do bail will there be somewhere for you to get to on foot before they turn around and come back to own your butt? Now if you are playing a way out there game, have you considered leaping and using one of the motorcycles for cushioning and then laying yourself down from there? I only ask assuming you've got a lot of Gymnastics, a ready supply of Edge, and a GM that's cool for mixing it up B-movie style. 8) EDIT Make sure to come back and let us know how it works out. |
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Sep 28 2006, 10:33 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 351 Joined: 17-February 06 From: San Francisco Member No.: 8,275 |
Well, we thought we were to steal a truck and associated trailer that was being escorted by the aforementioned five bikers. We were going to drive past them and then set something up down the road. However, when we were about to drive past, the Mage began to detect that they were all hostile toward us, and that there were more hostiles in the truck than just the driver. Then we got an AR message from a Dragon we stole some stuff from a few months previous to the effect of "Never steal from a Dragon" or some such pretension.
There are four of us in the car, so I was thinking of ditching the rest of the team and running off to hide somewhere. My character does have Gymnastics, Edge, and some Body, so I'm thinking a tuck-and-roll might be the best call. Then at least the majority of the baddies will go after the rest of the team and I'll only have to deal with one or two of the bikers coming back to get me. And I've got an Ares Alpha and 13 dice to shoot it with, that should help me against a few bikers. |
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Sep 28 2006, 10:35 PM
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#25
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Shame on you.
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