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> I'm a bad GM because..., yay sarcasm
Fygg Nuuton
post Sep 29 2006, 12:39 AM
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Even though the Troll tank has an extremely high Body and Strength, his lack of an intimidation skill hampers his ability to intimidate NPCs... Who knew?

I won't let people play half-elves. (true story)

The NPC adept pulled a pin out of a grenade attached to the chest of the samurai... Who then failed his Quickness test to get rid of it in time.

The weapons the special ops team use have a Smartlink safety installed.

I send in the HTR team when the players bring the minigun out.

The security rigger calls in for magic support instead of sending wave after wave of easily defeated security guards.

Mil-spec armor is never on special.


:grinbig:
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fistandantilus4....
post Sep 29 2006, 01:03 AM
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well, the troll generally would get a modifier to intimidation because of large size (superior/dangerous/armed/whateverthehellthemodifieris), but if he doesn't even have it at 1, he does have to default.

Could be worst..... you could kill someone in a rating 2 astral quest. :D

BTW, what was the difficulty to toss the grenade. if it's riight on his chest, I wouldn't imagine it being that hard to toss a (average) 5 second fuse grenade in 3 seconds (1 combat round), unless there's mitigating circumstances I'm not seeing.

This post has been edited by fistandantilus3.0: Sep 29 2006, 01:12 AM
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 29 2006, 01:39 AM
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QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton @ Sep 28 2006, 07:39 PM)
Even though the Troll tank has an extremely high Body and Strength, his lack of an intimidation skill hampers his ability to intimidate NPCs...  Who knew?

Yeah, I'd say it's bad GMing to have him not successfully intimidate (most) people. To not intimidate them into doing what he wants them to do, though…

QUOTE
The NPC adept pulled a pin out of a grenade attached to the chest of the samurai...  Who then failed his Quickness test to get rid of it in time.

This one does sound like bad GMing. Care to explain why it required a test?

QUOTE
The security rigger calls in for magic support instead of sending wave after wave of easily defeated security guards.

Some drones would probably do a better job for less money.

~J
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SL James
post Sep 29 2006, 01:50 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
This one does sound like bad GMing. Care to explain why it required a test?

Why shouldn't it?
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 29 2006, 01:55 AM
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Well, the fact that it sounds like this was being carried for quick detachment, as currently described it was still attached to the streetsam's chest, and there is that whole "fuse time" thing that Fistandantilus points out. Basically, I'm seeing the operation as only mildly more difficult (mostly due to stress) than grabbing the same grenade and using it deliberately—and if there are circumstances that would make that require a test, Mr. Nuuton has yet to describe them for us.

~J
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wargear
post Sep 29 2006, 02:42 AM
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QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton)
Mil-spec armor is never on special.

Fiend.
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SL James
post Sep 29 2006, 03:00 AM
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Well, I'm going to have to take his word for it that in 5 seconds the sam somehow failed to do it, which reinforces my thinking that it should require a Quickness test to do.
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Slithery D
post Sep 29 2006, 03:01 AM
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I'd require a test to notice the pin was pulled.

"He sort of limp wristedly slapped you, and sort of copped a feel on your web belt, to no obvious effect. And it sounds like he dropped a penny."
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 29 2006, 03:20 AM
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Depending on the circumstance, I might call for a perception test to figure out that a pin got pulled. I'd probably ask for some kind of Willpower test, and if /that/ was failed ask for a Quickness test.

I'm also not entirely sure on your logic there, James—he failed to do it because the GM required a test, and nothing but circular logic will allow that failure to support requiring a test.

~J
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BookWyrm
post Sep 29 2006, 04:03 AM
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I think it's canon that there are NO half-metas in SR, in any edition.

The Initimdation skill doesn't necessarilly have to come from the Troll Tank. i.e;
Bob: Look, you have a choice.
Captured Guard: I do?
Bob: Yes. You can tell us where {insert item} is.....or.....
Captured Guard: Or?
{The Troll Tank steps up beind Bob, overshadowing both}
Bob:...or, I can give you to him.

If the sam failed his Quickness roll to get rid of the grenade, it's his own fault.

The Smartlink safety is there, but who really uses it?

The HTR team has a Minigun too. And the triggerman has been having a bad day.

The sec-rigger called in the magic support because his supervisor told him to.

The ONLY reason mil-spec armor goes on sale is because it failed.
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mmu1
post Sep 29 2006, 04:06 AM
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QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton)
Even though the Troll tank has an extremely high Body and Strength, his lack of an intimidation skill hampers his ability to intimidate NPCs... Who knew?

Hamper, or make it impossible? Hamper I have no problem with, and I wouldn't let it work by deafult on professional opposition, but I'd rather stretch things a bit and let a troll intimidate people a bit better than the RAW indicates, than have a world in which trolls are actually among the least intimidating of all races, because of their lousy Charisma.

Though I too have qualms about the grenade issue...

1. The street sam ought to have been able to get rid of it virtually at will - it reminds me of people requiring a roll to drop a grenade on the floor, and having disastrous consequences because of a "miss" - some things just shouldn't require rolling.

2. Even if I was making someone test in that situation, it'd have been Reaction, not Quickness.

3. An NPC being able to pull out the pin in the middle of the fight suggests one of two things: either incredible luck on his part, or the GM making it much too easy to do.

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hyzmarca
post Sep 29 2006, 04:16 AM
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My security riggers forgoe magical support in favor of sealing all of the air-tight doors in the sector and activating the gas dispersal systems. Depending on the building and the rigger the gas may or may not be deadly. If that fails they he activates the multiple gun turrets and snakespine whips equiped with hull cutters on every segment. The troll in milspec ain't going to resist naval scale damage and the PCs aren't going to be able to steal giant cybernetic tentacles that are attached to the building.
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Fygg Nuuton
post Sep 29 2006, 04:55 AM
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QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton @ Sep 28 2006, 05:39 PM)
Even though the Troll tank has an extremely high Body and Strength, his lack of an intimidation skill hampers his ability to intimidate NPCs...  Who knew?

I won't let people play half-elves. (true story)

The NPC adept pulled a pin out of a grenade attached to the chest of the samurai...  Who then failed his Quickness test to get rid of it in time.  (yes it was a dick thing to do, but the player didn't get mad at it.  And we all learned a new way for stealth to be deadly that day)

The weapons the special ops team use have a Smartlink safety installed.

I send in the HTR team when the players bring the minigun out.

The security rigger calls in for magic support instead of sending wave after wave of easily defeated security guards.

Mil-spec armor is never on special.


:grinbig:

Yeah, was meant to be a semi funny-type post, in the hopes people would post similar situations, but nonetheless I will explain as best I can.

1. Hamper, he had to default... with a 1 charisma.

2. I know there are no half elves, but you still get people asking why.

3. Bad perception on all of the PC's parts, good stealth roll on the enemies part. By the time the mage pointed with a scared look on his face, the sammy freaked out and fumbled with it.

4. Just because I don't think they would pay good money for runners to pick up and use their own weapons against them. They could be removed later though.

5. Well duh.

6. Well, thats what I would do if nothing else worked.

7. Double duh.
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SL James
post Sep 29 2006, 05:29 AM
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QUOTE (BookWyrm)
I think it's canon that there are NO half-metas in SR, in any edition.

It is quite canon.
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wargear
post Sep 29 2006, 05:35 AM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca)
My security riggers forgoe magical support in favor of sealing all of the air-tight doors in the sector and activating the gas dispersal systems. Depending on the building and the rigger the gas may or may not be deadly. If that fails they he activates the multiple gun turrets and snakespine whips equiped with hull cutters on every segment. The troll in milspec ain't going to resist naval scale damage and the PCs aren't going to be able to steal giant cybernetic tentacles that are attached to the building.

Giant cybernetic tentacles.

Remind me not to attempt to breach your buildings...brrr...

And never, ever, suggest those things in the presence of my regular troll player...he might try and get them for his character.
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Fygg Nuuton
post Sep 29 2006, 05:44 AM
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QUOTE (mmu1)
3. An NPC being able to pull out the pin in the middle of the fight suggests one of two things: either incredible luck on his part, or the GM making it much too easy to do.

The NPC was a pickpocket, and the PCs knew this. It was a mistake to grapple with him, no matter how weak he is.
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Konsaki
post Sep 29 2006, 06:01 AM
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#1 - The Cha of 1 is the troll's damn fault, he could have upped it durring char gen. That being said, he should have a few bonus dice due to size over the person being intimidated, any street rep (good or bad), and any obvious cyberware as bonus dice. Now if he botched the roll, you can say that while he was trying to intimidate the guy, he sneezed, ruining the entire try.

#3 - Reading over it, you are not being a bad GM. You gave your NPCs some intelligence, played it how a weak pickpocket would do it (if cornered), and your PCs werent up to the task. Now I have to ask, did everyone run away from the Sam once they saw what was going on?

#4 - Was the safety thing to stop a hacker from jacking up thier guns or what?

#6 - There are many things a sec rig could do, you chose one of them and ran with it by playing your NPCs with some intelligence.

#7 - I agree. The high rank armor and other stuff shouldnt be as easy to buy as walking into a walmart.

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Fygg Nuuton
post Sep 29 2006, 06:20 AM
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I want to repeat this was a humor post. At no point did I think I was a bad GM for any of these reasons ;)

Also the safety was so that they couldnt be used against them. I play 3rd edition and thus guns cannot be hacked.
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Cray74
post Sep 29 2006, 12:18 PM
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QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton)
I want to repeat this was a humor post. At no point did I think I was a bad GM for any of these reasons ;)

Hey, I laughed and sent the list on to my gamers. I especially liked the grenade one. :)
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eidolon
post Sep 29 2006, 02:03 PM
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OMG YOU ARE TEH BAD GM AND HERE's WHY!!!111

Good grief people. It was a joke.
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Kagetenshi
post Sep 29 2006, 02:12 PM
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QUOTE (Fygg Nuuton @ Sep 29 2006, 01:20 AM)
I want to repeat this was a humor post.  At no point did I think I was a bad GM for any of these reasons  ;)

I know you didn't think you were. The point is, you may have been regardless—like I said, from the information you'd given us, at least two of the calls seemed decidedly questionable (the grenade one you've cleared up since then, though). There have been too many "look how stupid my players are" stories that really are, no bones about it, just the GM being a dick, so I tend not to give posts like that the benefit of the doubt.

~J
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Critias
post Sep 29 2006, 02:13 PM
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Right, we get it, he posted it as a joke. However, he also posted it -- if he's gonna make a list of some shit he does as a GM, whether he means it in jest or not, if the list is legit, well, maybe people are gonna critique him a little.
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eidolon
post Sep 29 2006, 02:15 PM
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Yeah, I guess to me there's still a difference between sharing something light hearted with your fellow gamers and getting attacked for it, and submitting questions and asking for advice and receiving said advice.

DSers tend to blur the ever loving fuck out of the line in between.
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lorechaser
post Sep 29 2006, 02:32 PM
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I've been the player trying to make the "I should be intimidating, because I'm big, and scary, and have glowing flaming hands!" argument, and I knew I was wrong when I was making it. ;) That was in d20, where I at least had the benefit of "intimidate isn't a class skill, that's just dumb!".

In SR, you're just a big galoot that stands around ineffectually. Get over it, and spend the skill points, dummie.

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Vheni4e
post Sep 29 2006, 03:18 PM
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In the cases where the big scary troll fails his intimidate test there are about a billion possible reasons why. My favorite two:

"Tell me what I want to know or I'll... HAHAHAHAHAHA, oh man, I can't keep a straight face!"

Uncontrollable gas.
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