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> Runners should think twice before murdering people, Vengeful ghosts can make life hell
hyzmarca
post Sep 30 2006, 02:06 AM
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So, I came across this article.

http://www.wishtv.com/Global/story.asp?S=5...456126&nav=0Ra7

Proving that I've been into SR for too long the first thing I thought was that it is 2006, there is a decent chance for a vengeful ghost to be created if the killing took place at a mana spike. This article mentions a "distant relative" but I don't buy that. It probably was a vengeful spectre.

Consider how many people the average shadowrunner kills over his lifetime. If even 1/100 came back as a malicious spectre he'd be in big trouble. Better than the 'Star, better than family and friends, the vengeful ghost is the best way to get over-the-top shadowrunners to curb their murderous ways. You can evade the authorities and you can hide the evidence, it is difficult to justify a random family member knowing that the runner is the killer or having the resources to be a threat, but the spectre of the victim will know who the killer is and will be able to use atreal tracking to get to him. Furthermore, if the spectre has an unknown chain it is impossible to defeat. I'tll just keep comming back and it may as well barter with winos for karma and improve its force every time.

Truely, a tatoo is going to be the least of this guys problems. And it will be the least of the problems of many Shadowrunners. For all we know "Kattie's Revenge" is the ghost's true name attached to the man using SR4 formula pact rules, so he'll potentially live forever to be tormented by the spirit every second of his eternal life for the next 5000 years or so.
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Wounded Ronin
post Oct 2 2006, 09:37 PM
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It would be delightfully 1st ed D&D to have a gigantic table of Things That Can Go Awry which you roll on for each NPC the PCs kill. While the vast majority of things would point to "nothing", there'd be a very small subsection of results that would point to things like "create level X enemy" or "become target of vengeful ghost."
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Butterblume
post Oct 2 2006, 09:49 PM
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If I thought twice about it, it would count as premeditated murder. Since my chars generally don't sign up for wetwork, they really can't think twice.
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hyzmarca
post Oct 3 2006, 12:51 AM
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QUOTE (Wounded Ronin @ Oct 2 2006, 04:37 PM)
It would be delightfully 1st ed D&D to have a gigantic table of Things That Can Go Awry which you roll on for each NPC the PCs kill.  While the vast majority of things would point to "nothing", there'd be a very small subsection of results that would point to things like "create level X enemy" or "become target of vengeful ghost."

1d100


01-05 NPC has random fenceable loot worth __ Nuyen
01: 2d6x10
02: 4d6x10
03: 2d6x100
04: 4d6x100
05: d6x1000

06-14 NPC has a panic button/Docwagon bracelet/dead man's switch
06: Docwagon HTR response in 1d3x3 minutes
07: Docwagon HTR response in 1d6x10 Combat Turns
08: Alarm - All local security alerted
09: Police SWAT response in 1d6 minutes
10: Alarm - Facility is automaticly locked down
11: Area Cranial Bomb (GM may choose to reroll)
12: Police response in 3d6 minutes
13: Astral Alarm, instant spirit response
14: Any one or two of the above (GM choice)or Roll again

15-20 Shedim!!!
15: The body is inhabitated by a Shedim after 1d6x3 minutes
16: The body is inhabitated by a Shedim before it his the floor
17: The body is inhabitated by a Master Shedim within 1d6x3 minutes
18: The body is inhabitated by a Master Shedim before it his the floor.
19: The body is inhabitated by a Master Shedim sometime after the run. It comes back to haunt the runners.
20: Any of the Above (GM choice)or Roll again

21-25 The NPC has a lootable key or keys
21: Keys to a scooter, motorcycle, or ATV of GM choice
22: Keys to an automobile of GM choice
23: A card key to a high security facility of GM choice
24: House Keys
25: Any Key(s) of GM choice or Reroll

26-29: Mistaken identity
26: The NPC is really a biological realitive, friend, or lover of a PC (or reroll)
27: The NPC is really a VIP (or reroll)
28: The NPC is really the extraction target (or reroll
29: Incorrect target of GM choice (or reroll)

30:Nothing

31-40: Enemies
31:PC gains 1 level 1 corporate enemy
32:PC gains 1 level 2 corporate enemy
33:PC gains 1 level 1 criminal enemy
34:PC gains 1 level 2 criminal enemy
35:PC gains 1 level 1 wageslave enemy
36:PC gains 1 level 1 law enforcement enemy
37:PC gains 1 level 2 law enforcement Enemy
38:PC gains 1 level 3 enemy of GM choice
39:PC gains 1d6 enemies of GM choice (or reroll)
40:PC gains 1 Free Spirit enemy of GM choice

41-51: Nothing

52-76: Evidence (nothing or reroll at GM discression, ie. homeless guy in the barrens or PC cleanses his astral signiture)

52-57: Police are able to trace the PC's gear. His fixer is implicated
58-62: Police are able to recover the PC's fingerprints and he has been flagged as a person of interest. Any SIN validation (real or fake) will alert the police to his presence unless he gets his prints surgically altered (such alteration will invalidate any fake SIN). If the PC has a real SIN then the police know exactly who he is.
62-65: The Police are able to recover DNA and have flagged the PC as a person of interest. Any DNA scan will alert the police to the PC's presence unless the PC obtains DNA masking. If the PC has a real SIN then the police know exactly who he is.
66-67: A Ritual Sample has been recovered. The PC is pretty much screwed until the sample degrades.
68-71: If the PC used any magic the signature of that magic has been traced. If the PC is a magician with a real SIN then the police know who he is. If he is magician without a SIN is signiture will be on file. If the PC was using magical items purchsed from an PC (such as expendable anchors or tattoos) then the supplier of those magics has been implicated. If the PC has not used any magic then reroll.
72: The Johnson has been arrested but is holding out. The PCs should lay low.
73: The Johnson has been arested and has confessed. All of the Johnson's criminal contacts have been implicated, including the PCs.
74: Any of the Above (GM choice) or reroll

75-77:Nothing

77-84 Haunts
77:A Force 1d6 apparition haunts the PC
78:A Force 2d6 apparition with a chain haunts the PC
79: A force 1d4 spectre haunts the PC
80: A force 1d6 specture with a chain haunts the PC
81: A Unique Spirit of the GM's choice haunts the PC (or reroll)
82: A Nomad attempts to attach itself to the PC
83: A Wraith follows the PC home
84: Any of the above (GM choice) or reroll

85-99: Nothing

100/00 Roll reroll twice and use both effects.
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fistandantilus4....
post Oct 3 2006, 01:11 AM
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wow.... your dedication astounds me. I am so using that now.
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Bodak
post Oct 3 2006, 06:38 AM
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I like it. It makes the PCs more accountable (or their successors, once the first wave of PCs learn the hard way). It makes sense that if they kill a large number of things, the chance of their Johnson being arrested is much higher due to the increased attention such a case would draw. And the idea of shedim possession before the corpse hits the floor... because he was just lurking nearby following the big guns around waiting for a body... that's something they won't expect / forget.
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
72: The Johnson has been arrested but is holding out. The PCs should lay low.
Unless the PCs are chickens or tile-layers I don't think they can lay. They could lie low. Or lay eggs / lay tiles (complete transitive verb). But not lay low. Lay would be past-tense of lie, so maybe they lay low last year. But in the future they should lie low.
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hyzmarca
post Oct 3 2006, 07:25 AM
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QUOTE (Bodak)
Unless the PCs are chickens or tile-layers I don't think they can lay. They could lie low. Or lay eggs / lay tiles (complete transitive verb). But not lay low. Lay would be past-tense of lie, so maybe they lay low last year. But in the future they should lie low.


Thank You, Grammer Nazi. :P

The proabilities and effects might need to be adjusted somewhat. The Mistaken Idnetity ones may not be totally realistic or totally aproperiate, they were mainly filler inspired by a rather sadistic idea from KarmaInferno. I wasn't sure if they were a good idea then but I really couldn't think of a good replacement of them. Maybe more Nothing or maybe copies of some other effects to make them more probable (shedim, maybe).

I tried to limit the probability of effects that would completely hose the run while focusing on things that would haunt them later (Which is why leaving evidence is so much more probable than anything else).


Yeah, arresting the Johnson would be the best way to get to the runners in cases of private employers. Even if the Johnson is a deniable asset himself there is eventually someone with motive somewhere. In cases of corp-vs-corp runs the unwriten rules of covert warfare would limit retaliation against known enemy Johnsons, but when it is personal (and small time runners are likely to get into personal stuff) the dude with the checkbook will ultimatly be a suspect.
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Bodak
post Oct 3 2006, 08:15 AM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Thank You, Grammer Nazi. :P
Ahh... grammar is a programmer's bread and butter. ;)
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
I tried to limit the probability of effects that would completely hose the run
Right. No items like "your shot accidentally triggers the target's mysterious cyberware flaw cranial bomb, razing the nearest three city blocks to smoking rubble." It's also fairly simple. If you were rolling a whole fistful of dice to come up with the precise ramifications of each NPC's death, your players would get a bit miffed if the majority of those outcomes indirectly resulted in new characters needing to be made.

As for the Mistaken Identity entries... I think it is very unlikely a PC would not recognise a loved one, etc. unless they were in a full chem suit or similar. There is a real chance, however, that the person just shot was actually an inside contact of one of the PCs' fixers, and that fixer loses a loyalty level for the major inconvenience the PCs just caused him.

If you have watched Dark Star (the inspiration behind Red Dwarf) you'll remember Sgt. Pinback was really just a fuel technician trying to rescue someone who'd fallen into a fuel tank, but because he was wearing a safety suit belonging to Pinback he'd been put aboard the Dark Star and launched into space. No reason why the guy with the ominous shadow who keeps almost appearing around the corner at the end of the hallway and subsequently gets blown apart by the runners' grenades wasn't simply a cleaner mopping the floor. I think the abandon shown by some runner teams could easily lead to a high casualty count of such mistaken identities, perhaps even rivalling those of a certain military force in modern warfare.
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Kagetenshi
post Oct 3 2006, 09:39 AM
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Our grammar is not context-free.

As for "events that would completely hose the run", you don't think generation of a Master Shedim counts?

~J
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hyzmarca
post Oct 3 2006, 09:56 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Oct 3 2006, 04:39 AM)
Our grammar is not context-free.

As for "events that would completely hose the run", you don't think generation of a Master Shedim counts?

~J

Minimize the probability, not eliminate it. If one has random consequences for killing then some of those consequences should hose the run, just not many. That being said, it may be possible to work around a Master Shedim, for a while. If you are killing at a decent rate then it'll get bodies for its family with no effort of its own. It I were an undead cannibal I would wait untill the nice Habitat for Inhumanity people finished making nice houses of all my kids instead of eating them outright. Police response is far more dangerous, and lets be honest, any security company that doesn't give biomoniters and dead man's switches to guards does not have the lowest possible insurance premium. It isn't unreasonable for one dead guard to signal the whole lot or automatically signal the police.


QUOTE (Bodak)

As for the Mistaken Identity entries... I think it is very unlikely a PC would not recognise a loved one, etc. unless they were in a full chem suit or similar. There is a real chance, however, that the person just shot was actually an inside contact of one of the PCs' fixers, and that fixer loses a loyalty level for the major inconvenience the PCs just caused him.


Great idea.
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Bodak
post Oct 3 2006, 11:50 AM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Our grammar is not context-free.

Whenever I give handouts, eg a scrawled PostIt note found on a desk, etc. I always give it atrocious spelling and grammar. Usually inspired by the drivel that goes on in World of Warcraft but amplified somewhat, just to give the players a feel for what English/Deckerspeak [3/5] (Writing [1]) really would be like. If it's referring to anything the runners aren't immediately familiar with they need to make intelligence checks to decipher clues as to what it actually means. Of course, the author of the note would know what it was about... probably... if he could remember what he'd been thinking about as he wrote it.

And as for the Shedim, I think it's a creative and logical idea. If you were a shedim and wanted bodies I suppose you could lurk in sewers and hope to find meat without too many limbs missing. But following some assassins around and taking your pick from the choice cuts... maybe going for one with merely a fresh shotgun blast to the jaw and a sprig of parsley... that'd be worth waiting for. Or manabolt-inspired sudden-onset chronic meningitis, almost good as new, no scratches or rust, comes with a free business suit, still clean, and one year movie pass good at any tridhouse. Wouldn't wanna get that all mussed up by jumping in the driver's seat while the trigger-happy delivery men and their messy guns are still trolling around.
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Kagetenshi
post Oct 3 2006, 01:18 PM
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Given that Master Shedim are supposed to be in the same class of "may not even exist" as the rest of the Threats, I still dislike their inclusion.

~J
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hyzmarca
post Oct 3 2006, 08:36 PM
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Master Shedim are in the 'may not exist' catagory because their Aura Masking and Regeneration make them impossible to distinquish from the living original unless you happen to be a high level initiate. If Bob the security guard regrows his head after a load of OO buckshot passes through it at point-blank range but is otherwise perfectly normal there it is perfectly reasonable to assume that he just had the good sense to pop an Immortal Flower that morning.
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hyzmarca
post Nov 25 2006, 12:35 AM
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Slightly revised random consequence table. I have reduced the probability of generating a Master Shedim by 1/3 and altered some of the sillier possibilities.

1d100
01-05 NPC has random fenceable loot worth __ Nuyen
01: 2d6x10
02: 4d6x10
03: 2d6x100
04: 4d6x100
05: d6x1000

06-14 NPC has a panic button/Docwagon bracelet/dead man's switch
06: Docwagon HTR response in 1d3x3 minutes
07: Docwagon HTR response in 1d6x10 Combat Turns
08: Alarm - All local security alerted
09: Police SWAT response in 1d6 minutes
10: Alarm - Facility is automatically locked down
11: Nothing
12: Police response in 3d6 minutes
13: Astral Alarm, instant spirit response
14: Any one or two of the above (GM choice)or Roll again or Nothing

15-20 Shedim!!!
15: The body is inhabitated by a Shedim after 1d6x3 minutes
16: The body is inhabitated by a Shedim before it his the floor
17: The body is inhabitated by a Master Shedim within 1d6x3 minutes or before he hits the ground (GM choice)
18: The next spirit summoned by any shaman in that domain will be an out of control blood spirit even if that shaman does not have the Sacrificing metamagic.
19: The body is inhabitated by a Master Shedim sometime after the run. It comes back to haunt the runners.
20:GM choice or Nothing

21-25 The NPC has a lootable key or keys
21: Keys to a scooter, motorcycle, or ATV of GM choice
22: Keys to an automobile of GM choice
23: A card key to a high security facility of GM choice
24: House Keys
25: Any Key(s) of GM choice

26-28: Mistaken identity
26: The NPC is really a friend-of-a-friend
27: The NPC is related to a VIP ally
28: The NPC's pocket contains a letter from an adoption agency and DNA test results which prove that he was related to the PC. Or nothing (GM choice) [I recommend this only once per PC but repeated use may have comedic value]

29: Nothing
30:Nothing

31-40: Enemies
31:PC gains 1 level 1 corporate enemy
32:PC gains 1 level 2 corporate enemy
33:PC gains 1 level 1 criminal enemy
34:PC gains 1 level 2 criminal enemy
35:PC gains 1 level 1 wageslave enemy
36:PC gains 1 level 1 law enforcement enemy
37:PC gains 1 level 2 law enforcement Enemy
38:PC gains 1 level 3 enemy of GM choice
39: Nothing
40:PC gains 1 Free Spirit enemy of GM choice

41-51: Nothing

52-76: Evidence (nothing or reroll at GM discression, ie. homeless guy in the barrens or PC cleanses his astral signiture)

52-57: Police are able to trace the PC's gear. His fixer is implicated
58-62: Police are able to recover the PC's fingerprints and he has been flagged as a person of interest. Any SIN validation (real or fake) will alert the police to his presence unless he gets his prints surgically altered (such alteration will invalidate any fake SIN). If the PC has a real SIN then the police know exactly who he is.
62-65: The Police are able to recover DNA and have flagged the PC as a person of interest. Any DNA scan will alert the police to the PC's presence unless the PC obtains DNA masking. If the PC has a real SIN then the police know exactly who he is.
66-67: A Ritual Sample has been recovered. The PC is pretty much screwed until the sample degrades.
68-71: If the PC used any magic then the signature of that magic has been traced. If the PC is a magician with a real SIN then the police know who he is. If he is magician without a SIN is signiture will be on file. If the PC was using magical items purchsed from an PC (such as expendable anchors or tattoos) then the supplier of those magics has been implicated. If the PC has not used any magic then Nothing happens.
72: The Johnson has been arrested but is holding out. The PCs should lie low.
73: The Johnson has been arested and has confessed. All of the Johnson's criminal contacts have been implicated, including the PCs.
74: Any of the Above (GM choice) or Nothing

75-77:Nothing

77-84 Haunts
77:A Force 1d6 apparition haunts the PC
78:A Force 2d6 apparition with a chain haunts the PC
79: A force 1d4 spectre haunts the PC
80: A force 1d6 specture with a chain haunts the PC
81: A Unique Spirit of the GM's choice haunts the PC (or reroll)
82: A Nomad attempts to attach itself to the PC
83: A Wraith follows the PC home
84: Any of the above (GM choice) or reroll or Nothing

85-99: Nothing

100/00 Roll reroll twice and use both effects.
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Wounded Ronin
post Nov 25 2006, 02:51 AM
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I like the table but if I roll it every time a security guard gets blown away the PCs are going to accumulate a small leigon of ghosts following them around by the end of their career.
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hyzmarca
post Nov 25 2006, 04:15 AM
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Yes, there is a point there.

Rolling it no more than once per run or once per character per run seems more appropriate.

Some of the effects have after-run consequences while some a best initiated during the run, so there is a problem there. Perhaps I could eliminate the during-run consequences and only leave the after-run consequences, thus making it a once per run roll.

Or the roll could be made before the run and attached whichever NPC happens to get killed first.
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Fortune
post Nov 25 2006, 04:26 AM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Or the roll could be made before the run and attached whichever NPC happens to get killed first.

Or even a random NPC between the first killed and the sixth.
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De Badd Ass
post Nov 25 2006, 04:32 AM
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QUOTE (hyzmarca)
1d100

There are no d100s in Shadowrun.

PLEASE! Don't go there!

The Sprawl Survival Guide manages random encounters with a d6.



We don't need no 3d20s.
We don't need no saving throws.
Wizards! Leave our game alone!

(apologies to Pink Floyd)
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Bodak
post Nov 25 2006, 01:08 PM
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You didn't include the possibility of the NPC just killed being an 'inside man' contact of one of the PCs' fixers?
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lorechaser
post Nov 25 2006, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE (De Badd Ass @ Nov 24 2006, 11:32 PM)
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
1d100

There are no d100s in Shadowrun.

Eh, I'm fine with it. Since this is an external GM aid, it's not canon (or cannon), so we aren't creating an actual need for anything but d6's. And honestly, how many GMs don't have d10's lying (or laying) about, just waiting to be rolled? Since you aren't playing WoD or rolling Fighter HP, or wielding a Bastard (or hand-and-a-half) sword any more, use those dice somewhere!

However, there are some overlaps in the new table.

75-77 are included in more than one category.

So there are 42 Good/Neutral results, and 60 bad, and one reroll.

I'd be inclined to remove 2 good, so that you're at a 40/60 split. Take away the 75-77 "No result" column, and then turn 41 in to something that has both positive and negative qualities, or possibly one that's random.

I'd suggest

41: The PCs have drawn the attention of a local Free Spirit. Roll 1d6 to determine its force, then roll 1d6 and check below to determine its attitude:

1: Neutral to the party, hostile to the killer
2: Neutral to the party, friendly to the killer
3: Hostile to the party, neutral to the killer
4: Hostile to the party, hostile to the killer
5: Friendly to the party, neutral to the killer
6: Friendly to the party, friendly to the killer

I also modified 28 to read: 28: The NPC is a contact of their PC’s fixer. Killing him reduces either the fixer’s loyalty (if he finds out) or connections (as he must find a new source) by one (1-3, loyalty, 4-6 connection).

Then I stole the list.
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Kagetenshi
post Nov 25 2006, 03:55 PM
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Simulate 1d100 through a byzantine arrangement of d6s.

~J
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lorechaser
post Nov 25 2006, 03:59 PM
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QUOTE (Kagetenshi @ Nov 25 2006, 10:55 AM)
Simulate 1d100 through a byzantine arrangement of d6s.

~J

Roll 48d6, then roll an additional 28d6. If the roll of the 28 is higher than the 48, add the lowest 12 of the second roll to the highest 12 of the first. Then subtract one from all dice over 5, and add one to all dice showing 3, as long as their is also one die showing 4 for each one you add.

Reroll twos.

Plot on a standard polar coordinate system, the consult the chart.
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Bodak
post Nov 26 2006, 08:01 AM
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QUOTE (lorechaser)
it's not canon (or cannon), so we aren't creating an actual need for anything but d6's.  And honestly, how many GMs don't have d10's lying (or laying) about,
Canon and lying respectively. The other options render the sentence meaningless.

QUOTE (lorechaser)
I also modified 28 to read: 28: The NPC is a contact of their PC’s fixer.  Killing him reduces either the fixer’s loyalty (if he finds out) or connections (as he must find a new source) by one (1-3 loyalty, 4-6 connection).
Hooray I am appeased.

If you wanted to convert it to d6 system (and you liked rolling a lot) you could structure it into a menu:
CODE
010 : Roll d6
020 : case 1 : GOTO good
030 : case 2 : GOTO good
040 : case 3 : GOTO neutral
050 : case 4 : GOTO bad
060 : case 5 : GOTO bad
070 : case 6 : GOTO bad
080 : LABEL good
090 : Roll d6
100 : case 1 : GOTO fenceable_loot
110 : case 2 : GOTO keys_for_item
etc etc etc

It wouldn't be too hard to code it into a program but then you might as well use the d100 table.
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Crusher Bob
post Nov 26 2006, 11:07 AM
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Hmpf, if I ever get to run again, I think I'll take a page from General Butt Naked's book:

QUOTE

So, before leading my troops into battle, we would get drunk and drugged up, sacrifice a local teenager, drink their blood, then strip down to our shoes and go into battle wearing colourful wigs and carrying dainty purses we'd looted from civilians. We'd slaughter anyone we saw, chop their heads off and use them as soccer balls. We were nude, fearless, drunk and homicidal. We killed hundreds of people — so many I lost count.


So what kind of bad karma do I get for that?
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lorechaser
post Nov 26 2006, 08:44 PM
Post #25


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QUOTE (lorechaser)
it's not canon (or cannon), so we aren't creating an actual need for anything but d6's.  And honestly, how many GMs don't have d10's lying (or laying) about,
QUOTE (Bodak)
Canon and lying respectively. The other options render the sentence meaningless.


I know. I just wanted to keep with the style of the thread. ;)

QUOTE (Bodak)
It wouldn't be too hard to code it into a program but then you might as well use the d100 table.


Hmmmmm.

I'm thinking that would actually be pretty easy to insert in to a script, and put on a web page.

I may have a new spare time project. ;)
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