 ED->SR Hypothesizing, Ristul the passion of megacorps |
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 Oct 19 2006, 11:30 PM
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#51
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 21-May 06 Member No.: 8,583  |
On to another Earthdawn/Shadowrun subject.
Whenever I see "IE" I think Indo-European, not Immortal Elf. Anybody care to speculate on which group where in Earthdawn times spoke the ancestor to all modern European languages except Basque, Finnish, and Hungarian (and many more elsewhere)? We know it isn't any of the elven groups: Sperethiel has no cognates in common with Indo-European languages and the grammar more closely resembles Basque or one of the Caucasian languages such as Georgian or Chechen. It isn't the Orks either: Or'zet seems to have more in common with Ural-Altaic languanges. [Daffy Duck Voice]Any takers? Anyone at all? Anyone?[/Daffy Duck Voice] |
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Oct 19 2006, 11:50 PM
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#52
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Does anyone remember Hellraiser 3? Asside from being the ill-concieved first step in an ill-concieved descent into suckatude for the franchise, it also illustrates my point quite clearly. At the End of Hellraiser 2 Pinhead's human aspect is freed from his demonic aspect and supposedly has some chance at redemption. However, this creates far more problems than it solved because, without his human aspect to keep him in check, the demon pinhead goes on a rampage and creates an orgy of death in his wake. Unencumbered by his former weakness he is fully unstopable untill his human aspect sacrifices itself to merge with him again. This is the potential problem. They had Passions, as they are now, at least have some goodness and decency left in them. To deliver the world into the tender mercies of beings with even a fraction of their power but no sense of mercy or compassion would not be good. Kalvan, Dwarves. It is always the Dwarves. They're fiesty. |
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Oct 20 2006, 07:59 AM
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#53
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Like Horrors? ;) Not he subtle ones, but the savage beasts that kill every living being they can. |
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Oct 20 2006, 08:10 AM
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#54
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
With few excceptions, the savage horrors can be slaughtered by any half-decent adept. Their best advantage is their numbers. Creating one with the power of a Passion or even a fraction of that power is unwise, to say the least. How unwise is up to individual GMs, of course. For the restoration of the Mad Passions it might be a good trade off. Then again, it might not be. |
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Oct 20 2006, 01:16 PM
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#55
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
A group that is powerful enough to split the Mad Passions might be able to deal with the resulting monster. With a little help of the Passions and the dragons, maybe.
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Oct 20 2006, 08:43 PM
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#56
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: 10-June 06 Member No.: 8,691 |
You know, I always thought the Passions are not the same from an age to th other. IMHO, passions are powerful free spirits (really powerful, and by really, i mean really). Thus it is perfectly possible the passions of the 4th age were never summoned in the 6th age and never became free spirits again.
New passions (and new mad passions) could be summoned, though. A magic 12 mage summoning a rating 24 spirit would be a good start, then after a lot of karma rituals and you have a spirit able to kick some serious great dragon's ass. |
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Oct 20 2006, 09:01 PM
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#57
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
The opening fiction in Harlequin's Back, as was mentioned, contains an encounter between Mr. lea'quinn and Vestrial (apparently). Once Free, a spirit is always Free. The title is really an misnomer. Free Spirits can be enslaved, but they all possess the condition of having a True Name. More accuratly, they should be called Named spirits. Passions, however, are unlike most Free Spirits. They have somehow tapped into metahuman ideals and gain strength from those ideals. They are more akin to Totems and Idols (and Mentor Spirits) than to Free Spirits. |
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Oct 20 2006, 09:08 PM
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#58
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
What was the evidence for it being Vestrial?
~J |
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Oct 20 2006, 09:29 PM
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#59
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
No hard evidence but a great deal of implication. Its appearance, its demeanor, its relationship with Harlequin, and Harlequin's response to it all suggest the Passion Vestrial. In particular, this exchange
suggests a worshiper/worshipee relationship between them in the past. And
implies Vestrial, the Passion of Lies and Deciept. and his own statement
confirms it. Of course, it could have easily been a hallucination induced by bad liquer but hallucinations are rarely aware of things that the hallucinator cannot know. |
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Oct 20 2006, 09:43 PM
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#60
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
About the hallucinations of a high-double-digit Initiate, who can say? :)
I don't think it was a hallucination, I was simply unaware of the evidence. ~J |
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Oct 20 2006, 10:54 PM
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#61
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: 10-June 06 Member No.: 8,691 |
Well, i thought an era of mundaneness would either banish the free spirits back into their metaplanes or kill them. About the passions being mentors or totem, i would disagree. Totems and mentors do not have a name or an identity. It is often a vague concept strengthening one's magician with his traditions. Passions have an identity and an agenda of their own. In that sense, passions would be free spirits who used the namegivers' ideal as a way to earn power, maybe like a special spirit pact. In exchange of devotion/karma, a passion gives his followers power. Mad Passions, in that sense, would be blood or toxic spirits version. |
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Oct 20 2006, 11:03 PM
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#62
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Yes, but Free Spirits can go back and forth between their home metaplane and Earth at will. Once the mana level rises enough to support them they can come back. As for totems and idols and mentors not being personal beings with their own agendas, I suggest readinf Find Your Own Truth. This canon Shadowrun novel presents a totem that is very much a personal being with its own agenda. We don't know exactly what totems are. They may just be amorphous concepts but they may be something more. Likewise, we don't know exactly what Passions are. They don't exactly follow the rules that other spirits do. |
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Oct 20 2006, 11:19 PM
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#63
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,066 Joined: 5-February 03 Member No.: 4,017 |
The thought I had is that the common dwarvish language that was the standard in Throal eventually broke into Germanic and Slavic and then into all the modern languages of those. The geography fits reasonably well with the idea but I have no idea how close Slavic and Germanic languages are and whether they could have a common root in a much more complicated language. As for the Passion/Spirit/Totem/Fruitcake discussions, I can't think of anything to add that hasn't already been brought up. |
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Oct 20 2006, 11:55 PM
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#64
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
They most certainly do have a name and an Identity. Dog isn't just a dog, or even the dog, but Dog, with its own personal outlook on life. |
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Oct 21 2006, 12:47 AM
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#65
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: 10-June 06 Member No.: 8,691 |
I must admit what you say is reasonable...although i still believe the passions are more like free spirits than mentors. In earthdawn, passions were able to interact , talk and, in rare but documented cases, even fight with the namegivers. Mentors have more in common with traditions than with actual intervention with the real world... |
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Oct 21 2006, 12:51 AM
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#66
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,013 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
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Oct 21 2006, 04:58 AM
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#67
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
You definitely should read the Secrets Of power trilogy, by Robert Charrette, including Never Deal With A Dragon, Choose Your Enemies Carefully, and Find Your Own Truth. If, for no other reason, to check out the interaction between Twist and his Mentor/Totem. |
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Oct 21 2006, 02:28 PM
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#68
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: 10-June 06 Member No.: 8,691 |
I'll try to get my hands on these books, thanks for the info. By the way, excuse me if I sounded rash. I didn't want to. It just i'm trying to make a earthdawn/shadowrun crossover set into the future and the return of the passions was an important element, and the free spirits idea was the best one i had and the easiest to implement. (Endowment to give his ''followers'' divine powers) |
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Oct 21 2006, 02:33 PM
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#69
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Correct. :) |
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