 Alternative to the Dragonheart Trilogy., What would you rather have happen? |
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 Oct 10 2006, 04:20 AM
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#1
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Dragon  Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019  |
I can see all kinds of beefs people could have with that trilogy. It's too cheesy and high-powered, it marginalizes shadowrunners, it has Ryan Mercury, etc. I could also see it as marginalizing Harlequin's Back, which is supposed to be one of the most emotional and heart-wrenching campaigns ever.
What would be your alternate history of Dunkelzahn's death and the extraplanar menace of the Horrors? |
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Oct 10 2006, 05:03 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 170 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,412 |
Geez, where to start?
Off the top of my head I'd have it that Dunkelzahn died to open the Watergate Rift. Why? Because this would be the only way that Ghost Walker would be able to return to our world. And Ghost Walker would be the real force necessary to fight back against the horrors. In this situation Dunkelzahn knew that he was expendable, and so he gave up his life so that Ghost Walker could return and lead the fight against the horrors. I would probably have something in there that Ghost Walker got stranded far off in the metaplanes while fighting the horrors during the last invasion and this was the only way to bring him back. Oh, and Ryan Mercury would have been in the limo with Dunky at the time of the blast and killed instantly. |
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Oct 10 2006, 05:10 AM
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#3
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Why would Ghostwalker be so vital compared to Dunkelzahn? The Dragons of Earthdawn book said that Dunkelzahn was the better spellcaster, while Ghostwalker was the better conjuror. They're pretty much even, but if Ghostwalker had some amazingly awesome abilities, then your idea is the greatest.
But you know what, that might have really been what the freelancers had in mind. After all, why else would Ghostwalker reassemble the Spirit of Denver, if not to fight something big and tough like the Horrors? |
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Oct 10 2006, 05:22 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 170 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,412 |
Hmmm, well maybe Dunky knew that most of his knowledge could be passed along in the memory crystal and be learnt by the other dragons, but the knowledge Ghost Walker had, of both conjuring and of the horrors could not be learned with out his return.
And since knowledge is power it was vital that Ghost Walker be brought back to our plane of existance. |
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Oct 10 2006, 05:27 AM
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#5
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
But the Jewel of Memory is firmly within the grip of Lofwyr. He ain't sharing, and I doubt Dunkelzahn expected him to. if he wanted any single person to have it, it would be Ghostwalker, but he doesn't have it, nor will he in the forseeable future.
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Oct 10 2006, 05:30 AM
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#6
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
How do you know Dunkmeister didn't want Loffie to have the Jewel? Maybe he figured it would eventually force the dragons (and maybe others) to work together more this time around.
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Oct 10 2006, 05:34 AM
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#7
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
I thought it would make them attack Lofwyr. Ghostwalker would be more likely to go along with Dunkie's wishes if he were given the Jewel, anyway.
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Oct 10 2006, 05:51 AM
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#8
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
He obviously did. It was in his will. My preferance would have been for Dunkie to not die and instead become the Sixth World's FDR, pushing through sweeping New Deal type legislation that actually fulfilled most of his campaign promises before being forced into war in which he leads UCAS troops George Washington style and ends up proving the old slogan "My President can eat your President" is indeed true. |
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Oct 10 2006, 06:12 AM
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#9
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
What makes you think Pale-n-Scaly one even wants the Jewel in the first place? |
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Oct 10 2006, 07:36 AM
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#10
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
What if Dunkelzahn noticed the imminent arrival of the shedim and tried to close the gate, only to notice even a GD is not strong enough for that feat?
I myself can take him wandering the planes fighting the horrors, it´s just the possession of a cyberzombie that was a bit much. |
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Oct 10 2006, 07:37 AM
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#11
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Has anyone official ever came out to say who the runners gave the Jewel to?
My players gave half of it to Hestaby and half to Lowfyr. |
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Oct 10 2006, 08:04 AM
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#12
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
IIRC, canon states that no matter who the players actually give the Jewel to, Loffie gets it in the end. |
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Oct 10 2006, 08:29 AM
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#13
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
But Hestaby still gets the paydata, so to speak. |
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Oct 10 2006, 09:12 AM
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#14
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Freelance Elf Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 7,324 Joined: 30-September 04 From: Texas Member No.: 6,714 |
Which isn't to say player characters don't matter! It's just that...uhh...the...err...decicions they make don't matter. Yeah, that's the ticket. The players themselves are very important! |
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Oct 10 2006, 11:49 AM
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#15
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Or maybe he did it just to fuck with him and screw up his little plans of European and world domination. Dragons get to follow their own set of rules but I have two words for you, focus addiction! Wonder if they can get that? Even if they don't suffer from it I figure the temptation to keep using it could prove distracting from normal everyday affairs. :) |
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Oct 10 2006, 04:35 PM
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#16
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
The Jewel of Memory's a focus? I thought it just had Dunklezahn's memories and knowledge.
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Oct 10 2006, 04:40 PM
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#17
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Spend the yen to buy a clue! Clue == 1 :nuyen:
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Oct 10 2006, 05:10 PM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
The number of people on this thread who have read and comprehended Survival of the Fittest is...low.
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Oct 10 2006, 05:16 PM
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#19
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
So why would Dunklezahn want Lofwyr to have it?
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Oct 10 2006, 05:28 PM
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#20
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
That adventure was great. My group borke the jewwl, which led to an awesome metaplanar quest about a year down the line. I think the best parts were seeing how smooth Hestaby was with the little trick with Morningstar, and getting one over on Lung and Ryumyo. Best of all was that it wasn't Hestaby at all, it was Dunkie behind it all, years before it actually took place, mostly because the thigns she went after were things that he set up. Like the Jewel of Memory and the Jade dragon.
There's a number of reasons for Lofyr to have it. One , I think, to learn more from the past, and see that there is more in the world than just his own self interest. Dunkie was pretty nasty back in the 4th world. Then he bacame Lore Master after Vasdenjas died. Then comes the 6th age, and suddenly he's nicer. So there has to be some sort of tie-in. Also, using the jewel is going to take time. I think it's also part of a plan basically to distract Lowfyr a bit, scale back his operations. he is known for micromanaging everything his corp does. Maybe Dunk just wanted to give others some time to work. As far as the DHT goes, one of the problems I see with it, is that it's a lot like the old 80's action flicks. Anyone remember Commando? The main hero is really good all the way up to the end. He's fallable, but he kicks just about everyone's tail, until he gets to the Big Bad Boss at the end and just gets the crap kicked out of him, but still manages to win somehow. And then there's "billy". This post has been edited by fistandantilus3.0: Oct 10 2006, 05:36 PM |
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Oct 10 2006, 05:30 PM
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#21
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
(1) He thought Lofwyr would win it by traditional means, as the most powerful and most cunning (after D died) dragon. Why not give it to him anyway, so that he might respect the will and not try to take the whole hoard? In fact, it gave Lofwyr an incentive to encourage other dragons to respect the will as a means of giving away D's stuff.
(2) If he'd given it to anyone else, Lofwyr would have called for a Rite of Succession or possibly just stolen it. He probably would have succeeded at either. Why not just give it to him, with a line about not being a prick that might just have some minor impact on his behavior? (3) He knew someone was going to call a Rite of Succession eventually, as Ghostwalker did when he returned. D thought giving it to Lofwyr and priming Hestaby with instructions on how to manage the other dragons and win the Rite and then give it back to Lofwyr was the best way to influence Loffy and make him a kinder, gentler dragon. See the very end of SoF. Hestaby didn't win because she's actually that clever, she won because D's gift to her in his will was a data file that anticipated the whole situation and told her how to win and how to then gracefully bow out in favor of Lofwyr. And it worked, in asmuch as one can make Lofwyr stop to consider the fact he may not be the closest thing to god. |
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Oct 10 2006, 05:33 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
As far as the official cause of D's death, I can handle the self sacrifice to stop the Horrors stuff, mostly because it at least got rid of the Horrors as a SR world existential threat.
What cheesed me off as a plot point (Ryan Mercury is many things, but not a plot point) was the timing. How convenient that the Azzies should make some big discovery the same day of the inauguration. How bizarre that Dunky felt the need to then off himself almost immediately. Did he hate his limo driver that much? |
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Oct 10 2006, 05:52 PM
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#23
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
2 hours after the phone call, after Dunk has flown to Aztlan and retrieved Mercury, and is sitting in his house w/ Ryan and Nadja:
"Nadja, Ryan, this item that Aztechnology has uncovered is a locus stone that can reaise the level of mana to a degree that wil let an army of cruel spirits through the metaplanes. You and I are gonig to go to France to meet and Immortal Elf named Cambieul, where I will sacrifice my life to power this artifact I so wittily dubbed the Dragon Heart. Then the two of you and Cambieul will go throug hthe metaplanes and destroy the bridge that would let them through. Then you can get your team together and go kill the people that are doing this." "I'm going to let the people of the UCAS know that I am going, and name my VP as my successor, and then dissapear from society. Eventually it will come out, through some "clues" left behind by me, that I was killed by a bloog mage gestalt within Aztechnology. That hsould give oyu some help in getting rid of them. Ok, well then, let's get going." aka: they didn't do it 'cause the book would be really short. Like in the movies. They didn't do it because "script said." |
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Oct 10 2006, 06:27 PM
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#24
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Was that directed partially at myself? I'll admit that it has been quite a while, but if I have made a mistake I would appreciate your being a little more specific about the details of my error. |
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Oct 10 2006, 08:18 PM
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#25
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 750 Joined: 9-August 06 Member No.: 9,059 |
It was directed at pretty much everyone. Your part was due to this:
Ghostwalker was, in fact, the one who actually called the Rite of Succession to win the Jewel and the position of Loremaster. Of course, he presumably wanted the position more than the rock, but they do kind of go together. Your very next comment made it obvious you have actually read it; others' suggested they hadn't. |
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