 Nuclear Explosions, Are they consistent? |
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 Oct 11 2006, 10:57 AM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,182  |
Okay. Lone Wolf incident, the nuclear warheads fail to detonate properly, no one knows why.
Winternight's nuclear weapons placed on fault lines and tectonically unstable areas. Fail to detonate properly, no one knows why. Hinted at that either something about the sixth world means old style nuclear weapons just aren't functional any more or someone or something is affecting them to prevent them from going off. However, Cermak blast in Chicago 2055, the nuclear device goes off as planned and functions as planned. Are these contradictory or is something else going on here? Is there a force that stops bad nukes, but allows good ones (in laymans terms :) )? |
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Oct 11 2006, 11:22 AM
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#2
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
No one knows why Lone Eagle failed to detonate. It might have been a super-secret anti-balistic missile system created by the Soviet Union or it might have just been a dud (the thing about bombs is that you can't be sure that they'll work untill they work). It could have been improperly armed, for that matter.
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Oct 11 2006, 11:37 AM
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#3
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
Heh. Not quite as planned, no. |
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Oct 11 2006, 11:50 AM
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#4
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,889 Joined: 3-August 03 From: A CPI rank 1 country Member No.: 5,222 |
There are several odd nuke-related incidents, true, but I find it a rather silly idea that somehow collisions between free neutrons and Pu239 nucleii happen differently in the 6th world.
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Oct 11 2006, 01:13 PM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,182 |
No? I thought it did work properly. I'll have to re-read on that. Edit: Oh right I get it. But the nuke itself works. Doesn't it? |
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Oct 11 2006, 01:38 PM
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#6
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I can't check, since I've got a moratorium on reading Bug City-related material at least until my character escapes the city, but I seem to remember the blast not working correctly—it still detonated, but I'm pretty sure there was something wrong with the detonation.
~J |
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Oct 11 2006, 01:39 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 109 Joined: 26-April 05 Member No.: 7,360 |
I think its in Shadows of North America that one shadow post claims that the SAIM activists disabled the Lone Eagle's warhead because they never intended to nuke anyone, just bluff the US. The Cermak Blast did not go exactly as planned. It occured inside the partially prepared magical barriers of an Insect Spirit hive which it seems confined the blast. The center of the explosion retained lethal levels of radiation but about fifty meters away it was safe to walk around without protection. The Winternight bombs, according to the fluff text in System Failure, didn't have a problem detonating but they weren't as powerfull as they should have been (similar in that sense to the Cermak Blast). As for bad stuff with nuclear power, there are also several reactors that have partially or fully exploded in SR history. The Cattenoom reactor meltdown that created the SOX, Glow City in Seattle, the Dunreay reactor explosion which was responsible for the Scottish Irradiated Zone and the Yarrow Reactor meltdown that created the Northern Irradiated Zone in England. The only incident of successfull use of a Nuke that I can think of is the one Isreal dropped on Libya, however that occured in 2004, well before the Awakening. Is it consistent? Not too sure. There are other reactors operating in the SR world that haven't blown up (although earlier fiction says they are Fusion reactors rather than Fission reactors, which might make a difference) and I don't know of any other nuclear exchanges that have taken place in SR history. |
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Oct 11 2006, 03:07 PM
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#8
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Mystery Archaeologist Group: Members Posts: 2,906 Joined: 19-September 05 From: The apple tree Member No.: 7,760 |
Why the problem, they can get fusion reactors working, so maybe the return of magic does affect quantum and sub atomic physics some. |
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Oct 11 2006, 03:15 PM
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#9
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...thus magic is now even more powerful than nukes? Great....[in a sarcastic sense of course]
Time for a Thor Shot. |
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Oct 11 2006, 03:21 PM
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#10
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 6,748 Joined: 5-July 02 Member No.: 2,935 |
It might be helpful for those interested to peruse the relevant sections of System Failure for more on nukes not working. As far as it goes, sufficiently advanced magic can disable nukes. Example: Secrets of Power Trilogy Book III, Find Your Own Truth. |
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Oct 11 2006, 04:13 PM
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#11
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
I've gotten the vague impression that what is affecting nuclear devices might actually be a conscious magical effort. Likely meaning dragon. Potentially Lowfyr and if not definately with Lowfyr's knowledge or partial knowledge.
Or potentially that part of the energy/matter generated from a nuclear fission is diverted and crosses the physical/astral. With the diversion of some of the energy the result of the chain reaction isn't going to be as great. To the point that previous detonations capable of reaching critical mass, meaning a runaway chain reaction (i.e. explosion), may not reach this. The problem with the later is that normally this would become very, very noticable the calibration of things like geiger counters and all other matter of instruments that are based on measuring the results of atomic decay would be off. So it wouldn't be a simple bleeding off, but something that would require reaching a threshhold of activity locally before bleeding off the matter/energy into the astral. But why would nuclear reactors do the opposite? Have reactions partially run away when they would normally be controled? Well a power plant meltdown typically actually a nuclear explosion. What normally happens heating steam to a pressure level that the vessles containing it cannot withstand and/or melting the physical components that normally contain the radioactive material. So they aren't reaching critical mass in the sense that a bomb does. Quite obviously fusion operates on a very, very different fundemental mechanic so it not being affected is perfectly sensible. EDIT:In a relative way. 8) |
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Oct 11 2006, 04:33 PM
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#12
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...however, this would also mean that a chain reaction would still be possible in a null magic area.
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Oct 11 2006, 05:37 PM
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#13
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Wasn't Kasmirt (aka Kasmir Wastes) nuked as well? And there was some sort of incident in China IIRC, at a nuke lab there. I also know there was one in the novel Ragnarok, but I don't remember that one too clearly. Read it a long time ago. I don't think that one detonated, but they sure expected it to.
Obvisouly there's something different once the mana levels involved. Remember the Dunkelzhan bequest? |
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Oct 11 2006, 05:52 PM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 27-October 02 From: Chicago Containment Zone Member No.: 3,504 |
How big of an irradiated area, really, are Glow City and SOX? I'm considering making a similar section over here in Illinois, UCAS, close enough to pre-Bug City Chicago for potential runs, but far enough away that I potentially won't be dealing with prevailing winds.
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Oct 11 2006, 06:21 PM
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#15
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
The SOX is somewhat bigger than the Saarland, which is 2570 km^2.
~J |
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Oct 11 2006, 06:31 PM
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#16
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Target Group: Members Posts: 90 Joined: 22-March 04 Member No.: 6,182 |
Thinking about it though, the nuclear detonation on Winternight's hideaway worked okay didn't it?
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Oct 11 2006, 06:50 PM
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#17
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
nukes in SR work under the formula of P+L+O+T, not E=MC2...
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Oct 11 2006, 08:11 PM
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#18
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...guess I'll just have to make them work with the formula:
h + r <> SRc where h represents house, r represents rule and SRc represents Shadowrun canon. |
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Oct 12 2006, 12:25 AM
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#19
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
What entirely magic devoid zones are there? I believe canon is largely silent, and correct me if I'm wrong, on the ramificatons of targeting into or across the location of a mana warp form outside of it. No, the big problem with conscious magic is the near-omnipotence required. The second of a natural breakthrough from physical to astral suffers from neither. |
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Oct 12 2006, 12:26 AM
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#20
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
uhhh.... space? the fovae?
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Oct 12 2006, 12:31 AM
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#21
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...thank you.
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Oct 12 2006, 12:34 AM
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#22
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Entirely? Not to mention that fovae aren't exactly common. EDIT: Actually I'm not sure if there is any mention of them existing outside of Aztlan. There is no known testing of the theory by nuking Aztlan. ;)
And who gives a damn if a nuke goes off in far space? |
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Oct 12 2006, 12:43 AM
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#23
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Aztlan hasnt let anyone test the fovae, and IIRC, they were supposed to be some sort of result of blood magic. I think it was the DH trilogy that talked about how the temples were essentially for astral mapping, partly to help find the loci. As for nuking to test it, well there's a few cities maybe we could do without. :D
As for nuking space .... Z-O, Daedalus, S-K moon base, the name of science? All "reasons" to set a nuke off. Wonder what that would do to the Earth below...? |
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Oct 12 2006, 01:09 AM
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#24
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
You are aware that you could theoretically cast spells on the Z-O if you could survive the drain? I believe it has been postulated on this board that what's-his-name vampire with his Essense Focus could potentially pull it off.
Totally lost in the background noise. |
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Oct 12 2006, 01:16 AM
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#25
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
of course, and filtering makes it easier. I mentioned it because now space is described as a mana void, an absence of mana, rather than a mana warp as before.
That's kinda what I was thinking, since the ozone already blocks so much solar radiation. But what if it was say low Earth orbit? How far would the blast carry in space? Does it require oxygen to go nuclear? That sort of thing. |
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