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> So, you can handle 400 points, but..., What about rookies?
Wakshaani
post Oct 11 2006, 10:10 PM
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Just curious to see how everyone would do the 'Wannabe' runners in the cheap seats. The guys who *say* that they're Shadowrunners, might even have some talent, but are still wet behind the ears. They could make good contacts someday, or even grow into 'real' runners, but, for now, they're more trouble out there than they're worth.

GUIDELINES
320 build points (Uppped from 300,because)

160 max in attributes (At 300, this was only 150. I throw them a bone.)

Limit of 1 skill at 5, or two skills at 4.

Limit of 40 BP in Resources.

Limit of 9 in availability of gear.

Lastly, a limit of 25 points from Traits/Flaws.

(Try to keep the flaws to those that are likely to be approved? Incompetent in Piloting: Anthromorphic for your mage will get knuckle-ruler'd.) :)

An odd little challlenge, but, A) I'm curious to see what y'all come up with and B) I need some lightweights for the future, so this'll save me some work.

No need to crank these into 20 die monsters, by the by. Rank of 6-8 in their primary skill is probably where theyneed to be.

I look forward to your creations!
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Fortune
post Oct 11 2006, 10:27 PM
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I think that 400 BP already pumps out fairly good wannabes already. Reducing the BP level any more makes PCs no better than Joe Average, who has 3's in his Attributes (requiring 160 BP, requiring a total of 320 if built using chargen rules).
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phelious fogg
post Oct 11 2006, 10:28 PM
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I thought average was now 4 2's and 4 3's
which is only 120bps
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Fortune
post Oct 11 2006, 10:29 PM
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SR4 lists an Attribute score of 3 as "Typical".
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Wakshaani
post Oct 11 2006, 11:12 PM
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QUOTE (Fortune @ Oct 11 2006, 10:27 PM)
I think that 400 BP already pumps out fairly good wannabes already. Reducing the BP level any more makes PCs no better than Joe Average, who has 3's in his Attributes (requiring 160 BP, requiring a total of 320 if built using chargen rules).



Well, the book guidelines state that 400 BP is for a good, solid, professional Runner, 300 is for street level/beginners, and 500 is for Prime Runners.

Since 300 didn't even allow for 3's across the bow, I upped the points to 320.

Hopefully, from there, it can come together well.
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Slithery D
post Oct 11 2006, 11:17 PM
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Yes, well, the guy who wrote those guidelines had never built a character or played the game.
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Draconis
post Oct 11 2006, 11:22 PM
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QUOTE (Slithery D)
Yes, well, the guy who wrote those guidelines had never built a character or played the game.

Damn right. At initial character creation we where kids with guns.
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Rotbart van Dain...
post Oct 11 2006, 11:25 PM
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Oh, it kinda works... if you accept that 'Street' means someone uneducated and desperate, 'professional' means that they survived their lack of knowledge long enough to get experience in some fields, and 'prime runners' means everyone out of formal black ops training.
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lorechaser
post Oct 12 2006, 12:11 AM
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Here's a quick n' dirty Sammie.... He's good with an assault rifle or spurs, passable with a grenade launcher. Basic negotiation and stealth skills, a little computer knowledge. He's poised to go more focused on combat, Face, or Rigger/Decker as he grows.

[ Spoiler ]
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Jaid
post Oct 12 2006, 01:31 AM
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problem: all hacking programs are availability 12, regardless of rating. i recommend you either allow up to a certain rating, or change availability (perhaps to rating * 2?)
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Garrowolf
post Oct 12 2006, 07:12 AM
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Actually I like the some 3s and some 2s stuff. It makes for more normal types of people. I also think that most people would have only a couple of skills at 3 at most. the rest would be at 1 or default.
This would make for some normal people trying to be what they are not.

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Ryu
post Oct 12 2006, 09:50 AM
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I prefer RPG systems where your attributes don´t increase much with experience. That said, my suggestions for street level chars would be:

-400 bp, because that ain´t much

-a max. of 240 points on attributes, MINIMUM 200

-a max. of 3 points on magic

-a max. of 20 points on ressources

-skill cap 4, group cap 3. no skills at 5+


Should lead to talented beginners that can get things done.
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Crusher Bob
post Oct 12 2006, 03:23 PM
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Well you can get the following for 320 points:

Ork
Adept
B 4
Q 3
A 3
S 3
C 4
L 3
I 3
W 5
(150 pts)

M 5
E 1

Stealth Group 2
Negotiation 5
Etiquette 4
Con 4
Intimidate 3
Pistols 1
Perception 3

Human Looking
Combat Paralysis
some 5pt flaw (allergy, whatever)

50,000 Y

15 pts of contacts

Adept Powers:
Kinestisc 5 (2.5 pp)
Imp negotiations 2 (.5 pp)
Impt con 2 (.5 pp)
Imp eqituette 2 (.5 pp)
Voice Control (.5 pp)
(.5 pp left enhanced senses or enhanced perception)

First batches of karma used to buy up edge.

The ork adept is one of the best builds around.
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Grinder
post Oct 12 2006, 03:31 PM
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Agreed, but I would get rid of Human Looking.
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Crusher Bob
post Oct 12 2006, 03:35 PM
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Ork hate is probably the most popular prejudice around, might as well sidestep the whole matter.
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lorechaser
post Oct 12 2006, 05:28 PM
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Agreed.

The party would be a majority of orks, with possibly a troll thrown in. Because you get the best attributes for your cost that way.

And since you aren't going near the cap, you're going to get an even better value, because the fact that a troll's agi maxes out at 5 isn't a big deal if 4 is your highest score.... Conversly, a starting body of 3 or 5 is huge in that regard.
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fool
post Oct 12 2006, 05:50 PM
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we did a similar campaign and found that most of the characters wound up being adepts because it was the only way to get powerful enough to survive a day in the shadows.
btw on the ork, I thought that kinesics was limited to lvl 3
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Crusher Bob
post Oct 12 2006, 06:06 PM
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It's improved ability that's limited to .5 x skill. As kinestics is a 'pool' adder, it's only limit is the adept's magic attribute.
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Wakshaani
post Oct 13 2006, 12:48 AM
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QUOTE (Jaid)
problem: all hacking programs are availability 12, regardless of rating. i recommend you either allow up to a certain rating, or change availability (perhaps to rating * 2?)

Actuallly, all hacking programs are Rating * 2 for availability.

Maybe that was fixed between printings?

At any rate, it allows for Rating 4 programs, which are pretty dang good.
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Wakshaani
post Oct 15 2006, 11:41 PM
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Doing some testing in this area still. Facemen = easy. Hackers = Easy. Trog Muscle = Easy.

Magicians?

Gads.
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Konsaki
post Oct 15 2006, 11:46 PM
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Wait till you try Technomancers. :D
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Jaid
post Oct 16 2006, 12:28 AM
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QUOTE (Konsaki)
Wait till you try Technomancers. :D

you can actually even try technomancers with 300 BP?
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Konsaki
post Oct 16 2006, 01:04 AM
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CODE
Elf [35]
Bod 3 [20]
Str 3 [20]
Agi 3 [10]
Rea 3 [20]
Cha 4 [10]
Int 5 [40]
Log 5 [40]
Wil 5 [40]

Technomancer Qual [5]
Resonance 5 [40]

Resonance Group 2 [20]
Total BP cost - 300


This is the most basic of technomancer. The entire concept would be to compile and register an assload of rank 2-3 sprites (max of 8 due to Cha).
If you want to hack into a system, you would compile a crack sprite of 4 or 5 on the spot, and then send it on a remote task to hack on the fly up to admin level to edit the access logs to create an admin account for you to log on with. This works because your remote task is to create an admin account for your character to use, the sprite just has to hack in to accomplish this task.
Then you log on and use your other sprites to wreck havok.
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Glyph
post Oct 16 2006, 01:11 AM
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Here's one from me, an adept who's pretty decent with a pistol:

[ Spoiler ]


What can I say, I like making characters. :D Maybe I'll try a magician next.
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Jaid
post Oct 16 2006, 02:28 AM
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QUOTE (Konsaki)
CODE
Elf [35]
Bod 3 [20]
Str 3 [20]
Agi 3 [10]
Rea 3 [20]
Cha 4 [10]
Int 5 [40]
Log 5 [40]
Wil 5 [40]

Technomancer Qual [5]
Resonance 5 [40]

Resonance Group 2 [20]
Total BP cost - 300


This is the most basic of technomancer. The entire concept would be to compile and register an assload of rank 2-3 sprites (max of 8 due to Cha).
If you want to hack into a system, you would compile a crack sprite of 4 or 5 on the spot, and then send it on a remote task to hack on the fly up to admin level to edit the access logs to create an admin account for you to log on with. This works because your remote task is to create an admin account for your character to use, the sprite just has to hack in to accomplish this task.
Then you log on and use your other sprites to wreck havok.

aren't you over on attribute point costs there? by 40 points?

which is good, in a way, because 20 points isn't much to build the rest of your character on (skills in particular being a problem), though on the down side without spending that much you're pretty screwed over on stats somewhere... i'd probably drop strength to 1 (you've got no skills to use gear that you carry anyways), but i can't imagine where the other 20 would come off... maybe drop wil and log to 4?

(also, just looked a little closer... elf is only 30 BP, so you've got another 5 BP to put somewhere...)

so let's see what we can fill in elsewhere... we've got 65 BP, right?

dodge 4 (16 points) (to stay alive... i foresee a lot of full dodge action going on in combat for this guy)
pistols(semi-automatic) 1(+2) (6 points)
etiquette(matrix) 1(+2) 6 points
(i'd drop resonance group and switch for tasking and registering at 2; saves 4 points)
electronics 1 (10 points)
hacking 1 (10 points)
perception 1 (4 points)

that's 48 points more total. spend about 10 on contacts, and that leaves you 7 points for gear.

other possibilities: drop dodge to 2, specialise in ranged, saving 6 BP. put those BP into boosting tasking or registering (with specialisation), or maybe even pick up a CF.

pick up some negative qualities. addiction to BTLs, maybe? allergy? sensitive system seems like another good choice, if you don't plan on putting in some cyber. put the points into drones, and command from the captain's chair, additionally making use of machine sprites to beef them up. maybe toss in some CFs if you're feeling crazy, or some positive qualities.

also consider dropping pistols, and picking up some gunnery and piloting if you go with enough negative qualities to get some decent skills there. groundcraft at 4 and gunnery at 4 allow you to make a better pilot than your drones, and if you pick up a command CF at a good rating your crappy physical attributes needn't be a problem. specialising in ballistic for gunnery isn't a bad idea either. total cost: 34 BP for skills, 5 BP for command at 5. this requires you salvage 4 points from elsewhere... much as i hate to do it, this will probably come from contacts.

this allows you to throw (4 skill + 5 command + 2 hotsim) 11 dice for vehicle tests, and (4 skill + 2 specialisation + 5 command + 2 hotsim + 2 smartlink) 15 dice for gunnery tests, which are quite respectable. with only 7 BP for resources, you probably won't have an awful lot of drones to start off, though.

(note: the last thing you want to do is rig your drone. you want to be remote controlling the drone, because this gives you +2 dice from being in hotsim, and allows you to sit around in a more protected node... like a hacker buddy's commlink, for example... or heck, even a buddy who has high firewall and analyse is better than 3 firewall your drone will have. spend nothing on software for your drones, and do not upgrade their response. if you want better signal, buy sattellite links. do spend money on some sensor upgrades, and of course weaponry. my recommendations for your resources:

one doberman (hack it's clearsight and targetting 'softs) (3,000)
one steel lynx (hack it's defense and other targetting 'soft) (5,000)
two ares alphas (3,400) (may as well get different targetting softs on these and hack them too)
airburst links for the alphas (1,000)
2 smart firing platforms for the alphas (4,000)
sensor packages (should be around 500 for each)

get some ammunition, and spend the rest on keeping yourself alive (armor, gas mask, that kind of thing. lifestyle would be good too ;) ). for the reduced power 320 BP range, you're looking at fairly impressive help from those drones in combat, and best of all you can be hiding in a corner while they blow stuff up.

in the event that you decide to not go for the remote control plan i presented, you can buy more drones (including some aerial ones, i suppose...) and if no one else in the group has a decent commlink, get a good one to hide inside while you're in the matrix commanding your drones from the captain's chair.

this should allow you to contribute in combat adequately, as well as contributing in the matrix... all indirectly through drones and sprites =P
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