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> Stun Baton
MadDogMaddux
post Oct 12 2006, 03:39 AM
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Is this correct?

Attacker rolls to hit as a standard opposed roll, including the reach bonus if applicable.

If he hits, net hits are not added to stun damage, target just takes 6 stun damage reduced by a Willpower roll.

Target then must make a Bod plus Willpower (3) test to stay up and concious.


I assume the -2 from 6 stun also applies to that roll?
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Fortune
post Oct 12 2006, 03:45 AM
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As far as I know, net hits are added to the base 6S damage from the baton.
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MadDogMaddux
post Oct 12 2006, 03:53 AM
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With or without adding the net-hits, that makes the Stun Baton a REALLY powerful weapon against low level NPCs.

If they fail their test, how long are they knocked out for?
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Fortune
post Oct 12 2006, 04:03 AM
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The additional (non-damage) stunning effect does not actually 'knock the target unconscious', IIRC. It merely makes them pause, effectively freezing them in place and making them lose (3-net hits???) Combat Phases.

Someone help me out here. I'm going from (ancient and decrepit) memory, and am struggling badly.
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MadDogMaddux
post Oct 12 2006, 04:10 AM
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SR4 p. 149
Melee Combat Weapons Chart
Stun Baton Damage: 6Se*

*e means that the weapon inflicts electricity damage, see p. 154.

ok, here's where I misread

SR4 p. 154

Target struck must make a BOD-WIL test (3). Failure means he is stunned for numper of rounds equal to Net Hits + 2.

If he succeeds, he suffers a -2 dice pool modifier to all action tests for the same period.


dunno where I got the Unconcious thing from.
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DireRadiant
post Oct 12 2006, 04:16 AM
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p 154

"A successful Electricity
damage attack can stun and incapacitate
the target as well. Th e struck target must make a
Body + Willpower (3) Test. Apply half the character’s Impact
armor (round down) and any other dice pool modifi ers as
noted above to this test. If the target fails, he immediately falls
and is incapacitated for a number of Combat Turns equal to 2
+ net hits scored on the attack test. Even if the target succeeds,
he suff ers a –2 dice pool modifi er to all action tests due to disorientation
from the shock for the same period. Incapacitated
characters are prone and unable to take any actions."
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Fortune
post Oct 12 2006, 04:19 AM
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So I was pretty much right, except for the 'stunning effect' duration? Yay! :)
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krayola red
post Oct 12 2006, 04:20 AM
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Wow, that makes the stun baton a pretty badass weapon. Sucking a flat -2 dice penalty if you get hit? That's gotta hurt.
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DireRadiant
post Oct 12 2006, 04:23 AM
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Makes rating 6 non conductive armor option very attractive.
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Fortune
post Oct 12 2006, 04:26 AM
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QUOTE (DireRadiant)
Makes rating 6 non conductive armor option very attractive.

Usually one of my very first purchases. ;)
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MadDogMaddux
post Oct 12 2006, 04:36 AM
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Problem is, how well should I equip NPC baddies?


One of my players has the Mossberg Shottie, and the other has the stun baton - so now I need my combat to take place where the Shottie can't be used, and my NPCs need nonconductive armor! :P
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DireRadiant
post Oct 12 2006, 04:40 AM
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One is perfectly legal to carry around and won't raise too many eyebrows. The other will make smart people take hard cover immediately, and raise some very serious issues with any person or group capable of responding in kind.

On the other hand, this is what makes a good team. They each cover an area.
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MadDogMaddux
post Oct 12 2006, 04:51 AM
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Yeah, I just wanna make sure I don't give 'em a cakewalk like that all the time :P
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Garrowolf
post Oct 12 2006, 06:44 AM
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Actually I was thinking about high amp stun batons.

Modern stun batons operate in the 2 to 3.5 milliamp range but have high voltage, 200-300 killivolts (up to 900 kV). Going into the 100 milliamp range is considered lethal.

So why not use lethal stun batons? Attach it to a knife or short sword so that it can penetrate the armor (no more nonconductivity). Then dump say 30 amps at say 1 kv. Then all the damage would be lethal but they would also be incapacitated as well. They would probably be dead.
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lorechaser
post Oct 12 2006, 03:15 PM
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So, a related question:

DO net hits add to damage with tazers, stun batons, and stick and shock?

I couldn't find anything to say they don't, but it's a generally accepted fact that is the case. However, logic and balance would suggest that you shouldn't do that.
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Lagomorph
post Oct 12 2006, 04:01 PM
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QUOTE (lorechaser)
So, a related question:

DO net hits add to damage with tazers, stun batons, and stick and shock?

I couldn't find anything to say they don't, but it's a generally accepted fact that is the case. However, logic and balance would suggest that you shouldn't do that.

When we were presented with what the rules say and what logic would say, we went with logic.
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Big D
post Oct 12 2006, 04:57 PM
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I'm not sure that I see why not--an electric charge planted on your forehead will probably do more than one planted on your leg.
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knel
post Oct 12 2006, 05:00 PM
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QUOTE (lorechaser)
So, a related question:

DO net hits add to damage with tazers, stun batons, and stick and shock?

I couldn't find anything to say they don't, but it's a generally accepted fact that is the case. However, logic and balance would suggest that you shouldn't do that.

If you want to model the enhanced damage from a more accurate hit then use a called shot to reduce armor from the default 1/2 impact. That's my way of integrating the two views.
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lorechaser
post Oct 12 2006, 05:20 PM
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QUOTE (Big D)
I'm not sure that I see why not--an electric charge planted on your forehead will probably do more than one planted on your leg.

I don't really think it will - the minimal documentation I've read on tasers basically says "try to hit flesh" not "Try to hit certain flesh." I believe that the entire point is that hitting someone *anywhere* is effective - that's why the taser is used.

Course, Knel makes a fine point. And since he's my GM, I'll just start using that as a plan from here on in....

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Kyoto Kid
post Oct 12 2006, 06:00 PM
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QUOTE (krayola red)
Wow, that makes the stun baton a pretty badass weapon. Sucking a flat -2 dice penalty if you get hit? That's gotta hurt.

...which is why it is an excellent choice for low strength characters.
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lorechaser
post Oct 12 2006, 06:17 PM
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And also why "Nonconductivity" should be the highest rating on your armor. ;)

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Jaid
post Oct 13 2006, 03:10 AM
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actually, i recommend the defiance ex shocker... 8S to start off instead of 6 ;)

as far the accuracy adding to damage, i say why not? it could just as easily represent things working out just right or whatnot.

(as far as taser training not telling you to hit certain targets in preference, i expect that's because you're probably hoping for the incapacitating effect rather than the damage effect, personally. after all, when you're training with a gun for self defense, do they tell you to aim for the head, which is a difficult target, or just to shoot wherever? (for police/etc).
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kzt
post Oct 13 2006, 03:43 AM
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QUOTE (Jaid)
(as far as taser training not telling you to hit certain targets in preference, i expect that's because you're probably hoping for the incapacitating effect rather than the damage effect, personally.

Tasers, in the real world, don't do any damage. They lock up your muscles and you fall down and can't move until they turn it off. A few seconds to a minute after you they turn it off you are fine. It's rather uncomfortable when it is running, but it doesn't knock you out.
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MadDogMaddux
post Oct 13 2006, 03:52 AM
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Yeah, but how do you reflect the psychological motivation it gives the target for compliance with a game stat? I think that's why they had to stick with Stun Damage.
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kzt
post Oct 13 2006, 04:18 AM
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QUOTE (MadDogMaddux @ Oct 12 2006, 10:52 PM)
Yeah, but how do you reflect the psychological motivation it gives the target for compliance with a game stat? I think that's why they had to stick with Stun Damage.

See the Orgasm spell in Steet Magic for an example of an approach.
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