How do you role play military people?

How do you role play military people?, HOW DO ROLE PLAY!?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!

eidolon View Member Profile	Oct 15 2006, 05:23 PM Post #51
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333	To back up what mfb is saying, yeah, there's a bit of "cult-y" atmosphere if you want to look at it that way, and yeah, the theory is to break you down and build you up, but unless you had a weak personality and sense of self going in, you're not going to forget who you are and become some automaton that jumps when someone says boo. It's hard to get too deep into the psychology of it, because it would require way too much typing. Oh, and my mileage varies from Critias' explanation on the term "KP". When I was in, it referred pretty specifically to kitchen/mess hall detail. Also, it wasn't reserved specifically as a punishment. Like anything else in the military, if it needs done, someone is going to do it. The kitchen and mess hall staff needed help, so each platoon would have a rotation of sending volunteers. Also, this was a basic training thing only. After boot, I never saw a military dining facility again from anything but the eating side.

Apathy View Member Profile	Oct 15 2006, 06:24 PM Post #52
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,408 Joined: 31-January 04 From: Reston VA, USA Member No.: 6,046	Of course, no description would match all soldiers all the time, but here are a few thoughts from my experience as a tanker: Soldiers cuss a lot...constantly. This caused me a lot of trouble when I first got out of the Army, because my habit was to include a couple curses in almost all my casual conversation without even realizing it. The code of machismo in the Army encourages everybody to play hard when they're off duty. Lots of drinking, lots of strip clubs, and a whole lot of hangovers. After years of fighting sleep while trying to stay up on radio watch, almost everybody uses a tobacco product of some type (smoke, dip, chew), and drinks coffee compulsively. No-Doz and similar drugs are also popular, and addiction is a common problem.

Dog View Member Profile	Oct 16 2006, 12:09 AM Post #53
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025	I've read about linguistic studies that show that in the American military, there is a specific accent that occurs regardless of where the soldier is stationed. I guess because they move around a lot and interact with one another more often than with the populations around them. Supposedly, a soldier stationed in Boston is going to sound more like another soldier stationed in Houston more than either is going to sound like an occupant of their respective cities.

dog_xinu View Member Profile	Oct 16 2006, 02:22 AM Post #54
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 289 Joined: 20-February 04 From: in the matrix Member No.: 6,091	If you are questioning you ability to play a serviceman/woman, then you might not be doing it right. I dont know, I wasnt there. I was raised on military bases and then now I have worked with/on/around miitary bases since I got out of the house. My dad was a carreer military officer. Here are some key points: * very task oriented. They are given a task and they will complete it. * they work hard, they play hard but never mix the two. * the are very structured in what they do, how they do it (check lists), etc. * they are very into their lingo, plans, structure, traditions,etc. * officers and enlisted act very similar but very different at the same time. good luck and have fun! dog

Dog View Member Profile	Oct 16 2006, 02:40 AM Post #55
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025	Thanks, I will.

Wounded Ronin

Oct 16 2006, 04:24 AM

Post #56

Great Dragon

Group: Members
Posts: 6,640
Joined: 6-June 04
Member No.: 6,383

QUOTE (kindvixen @ Oct 15 2006, 06:59 AM)

Okay, my experience comes from two summers of working for the military as a manual laborer, and having a lifetime of a Lieutenant dad.

The military, at the core, is all about removal of individuality. One of the reasons that drill officers yell at you like goddamned apes is because they want to break you down, and then paste a proper military grunt personality over yours.

Most 'grunts' respond by behaving like god-damned ten year olds at best, and drunk ten year olds at worst. I've seen monkeys who are more disciplined than the average private who's not being yelled at by a superior.

Though it is, as said, very much a game as well. Your asshole superior yells you deaf because he's supposed to do so. I experienced this in a slightly indirect way, when I was treated like goddamned horseshit by all officers, since they equalled people around my age within military grounds with privates. When I got one of them suspended from work for threatening me (i AM a civilian, they lack the right to do so with me. but for some reason, they have that right with privates), they started treating me like a person.

I learned, fast, that in the military there are only three ways to get something done.
Go to someone more superior than your superior.
Yell loudly enough at someone under you.
Or do it yourself.

Yeah, not too flattering a view of the military. But whatever. This also comes from what my father, who used to work as a drill instructor for a while, has told me.

Basically, to roleplay military people: Just use some lingo and squad tactics in combat. That ought to do it. If not, yell at people smaller than you until your lungs feel sore, salute anyone higher than you and act like a monkey when you're around people of your own rank.

You know, I wonder if that kind of thing isn't from a particular time period. The reason is that none of the military or ex-military people I've personally interacted with have acted like you describe but at the same time in some Vietnam War memoirs I've read about some military personnel who were extremely insecure and hostile leaders.

In one memoir, whose author's name I forgot but which was entitled "And A Hard Rain Fell", there was a drill sergant who was very cruel and sadistic. There was a fat man who had dropped out of law school and ended up being drafted and the drill was always harassing him. As I recall, when the fat man couldn't run with the rest of the group the drill took away all his clothes, threw a cigarette on the ground, and told the fat guy to extinguish the cigarette by pooping on it. When the fat guy finally squeezed out a tiny poop the drill made him carry the poop in his hands and run naked with the rest of the group.

Finally, the fat guy committed suicide and the drill presumably got in trouble because that was the last the author ever saw of him.

Thing is, I've never heard any stories like this recounted by anyone I know today with a military background. I wonder if this had something to do with the military functioning along a different theory (World War II paradigm; zerg rush with bodies and industrial power) than it does today. (Minimize casualties because they sap morale and make you lose the war, so focus on quality instead of zerg rush.)

Edit: Here you go, here's the book: http://www.amazon.com/Hard-Rain-Fell-Story...m/dp/157071987X

Edit 2: Aha, from the reviews, someone is mentioning the part I'm talking about.

QUOTE

He relates a story that took place in basic training involving a recruit named "Fatso" who was physically abused by a sadistic sergeant who took advantage of his authoritative position to bully this soldier in ways that this so-called officer will have to live with for the rest of his life. The soldier eventually took his own life and the officer was "relieved" of his duties.

Edit 3: Holy crap, read the reviews. People either love the book or they hate it. It's, like, an ideological divide.

eidolon View Member Profile	Oct 16 2006, 04:45 AM Post #57
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333	Wounded Ronin, I had missed a good deal of the post you quoted, but you are thinking along the same lines I am now that I've read it more closely. The military as described by kindvixen sounds like the military of the past, and the military as glorified and romanticized by television and movies. Any more, stuff like that will get you in hot water with your C.O. faster than you can yell boo. At least, it will in any unit that's functioning worth a damn.

Derek View Member Profile	Oct 16 2006, 11:51 AM Post #58
Jacked In, Up & Out Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 232 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Oceanside, CA Member No.: 95	Actually, the military described by kindvixen sounds like a description given by someone with an ideological axe to grind, the kind of description you would get from someone who is dead set on hating the military. 'Cause the military I'm in is most definitely not like that, nor has it been for as long as I have been in, and wasn't like that before I Was in, either. It's not all roses, but it's certainly the world of mindliess automatons screaming at each other that kindvixen describes.

kindvixen View Member Profile	Oct 16 2006, 01:35 PM Post #59
Target Group: Members Posts: 4 Joined: 15-October 06 Member No.: 9,626	It might just be that I had bad luck. I just know that I should have pushed back way sooner than I did. I know that generally the military people aren't all automatons (though the system is built based on that specific goal). But I dare you to tell me to my face that the average off-duty private doesn't act like a darn ape. As everyone else says, they basically spend their time getting smashed and generally playing around very roughly and extremely. "Play hard" is how people put it here, i think. MUCH nicer term than I used, but effectively the same. The military isn't all roses, and it usually isn't all automatons yelling. But no matter where you are, there IS a lot of yelling. automatons, drunk apes, or not. The average military way to speak can only be defined as 'Loud'.

eidolon View Member Profile	Oct 16 2006, 02:47 PM Post #60
ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333	Sorry, I'm not saying you haven't had experiences that led you to feel that way, but I still have to disagree. Yeah, I saw some privates that acted that way, especially if their superiors aren't paying enough attention to them. But I also saw plenty of privates that were too busy volunteering in community organizations and organizing and going on BOSS trips to be a thorn in anyone's side.

mfb

Oct 16 2006, 04:57 PM

Post #61

Immortal Elf

Group: Members
Posts: 11,410
Joined: 1-October 03
From: Pittsburgh
Member No.: 5,670

QUOTE (kindvixen)

The military, at the core, is all about removal of individuality. One of the reasons that drill officers yell at you like goddamned apes is because they want to break you down, and then paste a proper military grunt personality over yours.

Most 'grunts' respond by behaving like god-damned ten year olds at best, and drunk ten year olds at worst. I've seen monkeys who are more disciplined than the average private who's not being yelled at by a superior.

Though it is, as said, very much a game as well. Your asshole superior yells you deaf because he's supposed to do so. I experienced this in a slightly indirect way, when I was treated like goddamned horseshit by all officers, since they equalled people around my age within military grounds with privates. When I got one of them suspended from work for threatening me (i AM a civilian, they lack the right to do so with me. but for some reason, they have that right with privates), they started treating me like a person.

I learned, fast, that in the military there are only three ways to get something done.
Go to someone more superior than your superior.
Yell loudly enough at someone under you.
Or do it yourself.

Yeah, not too flattering a view of the military. But whatever. This also comes from what my father, who used to work as a drill instructor for a while, has told me.

huh, missed this post. kindvixen's descriptions are pretty accurate... sometimes. there are certainly a lot of lower enlisted who act like this. there are upper enlisted who act like this, too, but they don't tend to remain "upper" for very long--i saw a 20-year veteran retire at E-5; at the height of his career, he'd been an E-7 in an E-8 slot.

hell, if i didn't know better, i'd think kindvixen was talking about our III/V platoon--fuel/arms or arms/fuel, i never remember which; regardless, they were the guys who refueled and rearmed the Apaches. they did a good job, too, as long as they were on the job. to get them there, though, you had to find them, and hope they weren't too drunk. kindvixen might also have been talking about D troop, or A troop, or B troop, or C troop, or HHQ, or the supply detatchment we shared our base with, or the civilian contractors who worked with us...

everybody in Korea drank. if you weren't on duty, you were drinking--it was like an on/off switch. hopefully, once you were back on duty, you weren't still drunk, but shit happens. hell, one of the BOSS trips we took frequently was to the OB beer factory. at the end of the tour, they put you in a room with a bunch of kegs and cups until you were ready to leave. we took full advantage. you want to talk about stunts a ten year-old drunken monkey would think twice about? i had an LTC who got arrested for duck hunting. that doesn't sound like much, until you understand that private citizens in Korea--and this very, very much includes American personnel stationed there--are not allowed to own firearms, much less go around firing them. everybody thought it was hilarious--he got a plaque and everything.

one year, we got honored as the most-badass air attack squadron, or something like that. the only reason i remember the award is because that same year, we got 'honored' as the unit with the most disciplinary actions on the peninsula. we drank to celebrate both distinctions. i don't have the breadth of experience to say for sure, but i'm willing to bet that the units and locations with the most discipline problems are the units and locations with the most unpleasant jobs to do. fueling and arming a chopper while it's snowing sideways isn't, y'know, fun. nobody likes having a job that sucks, and 'playing hard' is the way most people tend to deal with having to do those jobs.

lorechaser View Member Profile	Oct 16 2006, 05:35 PM Post #62
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168	I too know a lot of military stories that start with "We were off duty, and in some bar. I was pretty drunk, and...." I suspect the ratio may also have a lot to do with deployment status. The guy that's spent 2 years refueling choppers in sideways snow may have a different outlook than the guy that spent 2 years making sure choppers were ready to deploy from bases in the states....

Derek

Oct 16 2006, 05:41 PM

Post #63

Jacked In, Up & Out

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 232
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Oceanside, CA
Member No.: 95

QUOTE (kindvixen)

It might just be that I had bad luck. I just know that I should have pushed back way sooner than I did.

I know that generally the military people aren't all automatons (though the system is built based on that specific goal). But I dare you to tell me to my face that the average off-duty private doesn't act like a darn ape. As everyone else says, they basically spend their time getting smashed and generally playing around very roughly and extremely. "Play hard" is how people put it here, i think.
MUCH nicer term than I used, but effectively the same.

The military isn't all roses, and it usually isn't all automatons yelling. But no matter where you are, there IS a lot of yelling. automatons, drunk apes, or not. The average military way to speak can only be defined as 'Loud'.

Ok, I'll go ahead and tell you:

The average off-duty private doesn't act like an ape, any more so than any other average 18-22 year old does.

Have you ever been in or around a college campus? Well, the average private is just like a college student, except with a bit more money (on average), and a bit more discpline. Funny thing, though, as much as alcohol is a problem in today's military, the actual number (percentage wise) of legal offenses (DUI's, drunk inpublic, etc...) is lower than for the equivalent age group of civvillians.

On the other hand, as eidolon said, military personnel do a whole hell of a lot of vounteer work, outside of normal working hours. The motivations are many: sometimes because they were voluntold, sometimes because they volunteer, sometimes to get ahead in their job, sometimes for entirely unfathomable reasons, but regardless, they do a huge amount of volunteer work.

As for what rank civillians are equivalent to, well, I hate to break it to you, but the average civillian isn't equivalent to any rank whatsoever. If they are in a specific job that gives them equivalent rank, then yes, they have those priveleges, and should be treated as such. The various GS (government service) positions have rank equivalents, and provide various priveledges as such. So, whatever job you were in, you may have had a rank equivalency of a private, or a sergeant, or an officer. Of course, it was your responsibility to find out what that was, and act accordingly.

Finally, the military nowadays encourages some individuality and ability to think for yourself. The decision a young corporal or private makes on the battlefield can have strategic, national implications, and trust me, we don't want automatons making those decisions. A lot of time and effort go into leadership and decision making training for that very reason.

Anyways, enough topic tangency. I just get somewhat offended when people seem to have some sort of axe to grind, and use that to paint the military as a whole with a pretty false brush.

Kagetenshi

Oct 16 2006, 05:51 PM

Post #64

Manus Celer Dei

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 17,008
Joined: 30-December 02
From: Boston
Member No.: 3,802

QUOTE (Derek)

The average off-duty private doesn't act like an ape, any more so than any other average 18-22 year old does.

Entirely and all the time?

~J

mfb View Member Profile	Oct 16 2006, 06:08 PM Post #65
Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670	edit: er, oh. got it, nm. i think kindvixen's post is probably the clearest representation of the difference between civilian and military life. the guys kindvixen was working with probably remember that day, if they remember it at all, as "the day that civvie flipped out for no reason at all".

Derek View Member Profile	Oct 16 2006, 06:47 PM Post #66
Jacked In, Up & Out Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 232 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Oceanside, CA Member No.: 95	Yep, probably completely true.

Butterblume View Member Profile	Oct 16 2006, 07:45 PM Post #67
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081	I can't really think of any really abusive behavior in my military time. Sure, we were screamed at and such things (but that's just canon ;)). There were a few things, but nothing really major. But then, our platoon leader was a sensible guy. Mainly, the most annoying thing was the strict discipline. Things like running around in mopp gear in midsummer, carrying around our comrade in a makeshift stretcher while wearing gas masks and singing, visiting the CS gas house or to reassemble various weapons, locked in a locker, while the NCO is hitting the locker with a stick and screaming at you, is all just something you have to experience. (Actually, those things were mostly fun) It's tradition to get drunk after basic training. We actually were thrown out of a bar. Our NCO was at fault...

PBTHHHHT

Oct 16 2006, 08:28 PM

Post #68

Neophyte Runner

Group: Members
Posts: 2,174
Joined: 13-May 04
From: UCAS
Member No.: 6,327

QUOTE (mfb)

everybody in Korea drank. if you weren't on duty, you were drinking--it was like an on/off switch. hopefully, once you were back on duty, you weren't still drunk, but shit happens.

Heh, my friend had some fun stories about his time in Korea when he got back. He was a major (now a lt col) at the time and he had to pull duty to walk the bar district and make sure the enlisted didn't get into much trouble. Trying to quell the sitations, calling on the MP's, or worse case the Korean equivalents when it involved Korean citizenry.

Angelone View Member Profile	Oct 16 2006, 10:26 PM Post #69
Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,286 Joined: 24-May 05 From: A 10x10 room with an orc and a treasure chest Member No.: 7,409	Real quick on the acting like apes bit, you have to realize that most privates are young and away from home for the first time. Without mommy and daddy watching over their shoulders they think they can get away with it. Most of them learn pretty quickly they can't. On roleplaying: a suprising number do in my experience. As a side note everybody in my battery plays WoW and most in the battalion do. In my military experience (US Army, Air Defence) vs. my other jobs, military people are closer than civilians. I don't have a car atm, and so to get somewhere I have to walk, I never have to walk farther than a block before someone stops and offers me a ride. Would you as a civilian do the same? We call bathrooms shitters too, in and out of private. Cursing is a must. For slang or sayings you got: Fubar'd "Fucked up beyond all recognition", "Good day to be a soldier hooah" usually used when it isn't, quote Murphey's law alot, "brown and rounds" Drill Sergants, "Hurry up and wait" you usually get told to be somewhere NOW and then sit around for atleast 4 hours because you weren't expected, "High speed low drag" umm... not quite sure but it's good, "Wooowww" said after someone does something really dumb usually followed by "You are a no-go at this station" "Nasty girls or no-go" slang for National Guard Add more as I think of them.

kindvixen

Oct 17 2006, 09:49 AM

Post #70

Target

Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 15-October 06
Member No.: 9,626

QUOTE (mfb @ Oct 16 2006, 01:08 PM)

edit: er, oh. got it, nm.

i think kindvixen's post is probably the clearest representation of the difference between civilian and military life. the guys kindvixen was working with probably remember that day, if they remember it at all, as "the day that civvie flipped out for no reason at all".

I'd be surprised if the guy I got suspended didn't remember it a bit better. These guys worked with my dad too. And basically, while I have no rank in the yelling order, this does not mean they can yell at me as if I was a private.

Imagine if some captain would walk up to you on the street and start yelling his fucking lungs out. See how you'd take it. This was basically the same thing. I was hired to trim the damn rose bushes and to mow the lawns. I was not in the military, and thus technically, on the yelling order, I'm above almost anyone simply due to NOT. BEING. IN. IT.

Meaning, unless it's an emergency, they have no right *OR* reason to yell at me.

I asked my dear dad about the fate of that one officer, and apparently he got into a massive amount of trouble for yelling at and threatening a civilian.

I learned that what they say is true: Nobody can intimidate you without you allowing them to do so. Sadly I presumed that these people act like it to all people my age. While true, this doesn't make it any better. Ah well.

Critias

Oct 17 2006, 11:32 AM

Post #71

Freelance Elf

Group: Dumpshocked
Posts: 7,324
Joined: 30-September 04
From: Texas
Member No.: 6,714

QUOTE (kindvixen)

QUOTE (mfb @ Oct 16 2006, 01:08 PM)

edit: er, oh. got it, nm.

i think kindvixen's post is probably the clearest representation of the difference between civilian and military life. the guys kindvixen was working with probably remember that day, if they remember it at all, as "the day that civvie flipped out for no reason at all".

I'd be surprised if the guy I got suspended didn't remember it a bit better. These guys worked with my dad too. And basically, while I have no rank in the yelling order, this does not mean they can yell at me as if I was a private.

Imagine if some captain would walk up to you on the street and start yelling his fucking lungs out. See how you'd take it. This was basically the same thing. I was hired to trim the damn rose bushes and to mow the lawns. I was not in the military, and thus technically, on the yelling order, I'm above almost anyone simply due to NOT. BEING. IN. IT.

Meaning, unless it's an emergency, they have no right *OR* reason to yell at me.

I asked my dear dad about the fate of that one officer, and apparently he got into a massive amount of trouble for yelling at and threatening a civilian.

I learned that what they say is true: Nobody can intimidate you without you allowing them to do so. Sadly I presumed that these people act like it to all people my age. While true, this doesn't make it any better. Ah well.

It's good to see that this experience didn't leave a chip on your shoulder.

kindvixen

Oct 17 2006, 12:32 PM

Post #72

Target

Group: Members
Posts: 4
Joined: 15-October 06
Member No.: 9,626

QUOTE (Critias)

It's good to see that this experience didn't leave a chip on your shoulder.

Towel for your dripping sarcasm?

Oracle View Member Profile	Oct 17 2006, 12:52 PM Post #73
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 934 Joined: 26-August 05 From: Earth - Europe - AGS - Norddeutscher Bund - Hannover Member No.: 7,624	It's Critias. He will need much more than a towel. ;)

Derek View Member Profile	Oct 17 2006, 01:04 PM Post #74
Jacked In, Up & Out Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 232 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Oceanside, CA Member No.: 95	Again, kv, you are wrong. First of all, if you were working on a military base, you are automatically subject to some of the same regulations. Not all of them, nor even many of them, but some of them, but virtue of venturing on a federal military installation. There is a sign at the front gate of every military installation stating this, and you agreed to those terms by driving (or walking) onto the base. Second, you were working for the military, even if you were only trimming the bushes. So, again, you fell under some of the rules and regulations. Not the full blown Uniform Code of Military Justice (UCMJ), but some similiar regulations. Also, sorry to say but in the pecking order, you were pretty low. You were probably either a very low level GS (I'd guess a GS-3, equivalent to about a private), or more likely, a contractor. Now, neither of those gave that officer the right to yell at you, but I'd hazard a guess that what you called yelling was most likely just correcting you in a louder tone of voice than your tender sensibilites were used to, and if you were doing your job (trimming the bushes) incorrectly, that officer certainly did have the right to correct you. Finally, I would take the word of your father with a large grain of salt, as parents are often known to defend their children above all others, especcially when said children were completely wrong. So, in closing, to the original poster, I think you can take kv's view of the military as more than biased and discount it. This does bring up a good point though: military personnel generally don't put up with a lot bullshit *if they have the ability to do something about it* On the other hand, if they can't do anything about it, military people can put up with a huge amount of bullshit.

eidolon

Oct 17 2006, 01:27 PM

Post #75

ghostrider

Group: Retired Admins
Posts: 4,196
Joined: 16-May 04
Member No.: 6,333

QUOTE (kindvixen)

QUOTE (Critias @ Oct 17 2006, 06:32 AM)

It's good to see that this experience didn't leave a chip on your shoulder.

Towel for your dripping sarcasm?

He may be being a bit sarcastic, but he has a point. You're taking that one incident with one officer, and using it as a brush with which to paint an entire military in broad strokes. That's just silly. Even if the situation is exactly what you say it was, and I'm sure that from your perspective it was, it's hardly indicative of anything other than one guy being a jerk.

That, combined with your slightly "nyah-nyah" attitude, doesn't really do a whole lot to stabilize your platform, really. No offense or anything, just telling you what it looks like from another viewpoint.

« Next Oldest · Shadowrun · Next Newest »