 How would a Catholic Magician Work? |
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 Oct 16 2006, 06:30 PM
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#26
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455  |
UMT says they're the same. Practitioners of some traditions may beg to differ.
I would tend to lean Protestant traditions more towards UMT than strict Catholic teachings. |
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Oct 16 2006, 06:45 PM
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#27
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
I realize that it's a few editions old at this point, but there was about half a page devoted to the Mormons in the Ute chapter of Native American Nations Volume 1. Nothing in particular in how they relate to magic; it more focused on the fact that they still control Salt Lake City as a religious city-state enclosed within the borders of another nation, much the same way the Vatican City is a separate political entity from the rest of Italy.
Needless to say though, the Mormon Church did survive the Awakening. |
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Oct 16 2006, 06:53 PM
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#28
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
hehe, well, I'm mormon, more or less, I sure don't have any issues ywt. Hell, I'd say this threads being pretty damn friendly for one discussing religion (the swearing is one reason I say "more or less";)). Edit: grr.. :S beat to the punch. Need to learn to type faster! (or less). Anyways, in canon, at least up to SoNA, Salt Lake is still controlled by the church, because IIRC, they helped out Howling Coyote during the war. I coudl defintely see some intolerence issues, with metatypes though. Heck, this place is pretty damn white-washed as far as races today. I live in Orem BTW, just south of SL. We had a game where we went through the area, and there were underground clubs where people would drink and smoke, because it was completely outlawed. Back on topic, Street magic has good rules for using Christian magic in general. I'm running a game now where an exrunner is getting slowly brought in to the templerate. He's Irish, formerly a Knight of the Red Cross, formerly a shadowrunner, trying to clean him self up a bit. Using some of the new spirits like guardian spirits helps a lot. For the most part, it's easiest to play a christian "mage" of any type more sorcery-centric. Conjuring angels bring up to many different issues. He has an ally in 'angelic' form, that acts more like a guardian/guide than a typical ally spirit. Metamagics tend to go to things like shielding, divination, that sort of thing. It would be difficult to play a "typical" runner, because most of the things runners do are against the tenets of the faith. An alternate campaign, going after magical threats, supporting groups like Catholics in Tir NA Nog and Aztlan, and fighting church opposition like the Black Lodge are the bread and butter of the campaign I'm starting for him. Other interesting things for the faith would be the geas flaw, requiring prayer time three times a day, fasting once a month, donating to the church, that sort of thing. Remember that magic works off of the practitioners mindset. I've been thinking of incorporating the work of John Dee, and Enochian magic into it as well. This post has been edited by fistandantilus3.0: Oct 16 2006, 06:57 PM |
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Oct 16 2006, 06:56 PM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 18-April 03 From: The UV Nexus Member No.: 4,474 |
This is the SR4 forum. Is there a limit on the number of ally spirits in SR4 (other than lack of karma)? |
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Oct 16 2006, 06:58 PM
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#30
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Not that I've noticed. I've never bothered limiting allys anyways. If you watn to throw away your karma and sit back while your spirits do your work, that's fine by me. Might be fun for some folks who like the "summoner" stlye character more anyways.
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Oct 16 2006, 07:08 PM
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#31
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 619 Joined: 18-April 03 From: The UV Nexus Member No.: 4,474 |
I thought Gyro-mount was an oxymoron. When the combatants start using gyro-mounts, combat is already out of control. Thanks for the clarification on ally spirits. Back on topic: A natural role for Catholic magicians would be exorcist. That would put them at odds with the possession based traditions. |
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Oct 16 2006, 07:40 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 524 Joined: 12-April 06 Member No.: 8,455 |
No kidding. Particularly regarding the desecration of the dead for use as zombies, possession/inhabitation of the living, etc. |
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Oct 16 2006, 09:35 PM
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#33
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I don't recall a limit on the number of Ally Spirits a magician can have in any edition of SR. |
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Oct 16 2006, 10:21 PM
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#34
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
I think that's just a house rule some people use to keep things in check. Really though I doubt it's really much of an issue except in high karma campaigns, because allys are damn expensive.
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Oct 16 2006, 10:44 PM
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#35
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
I can see your point, but there's still big differences between angels of death, devout Catholics, and professional criminals. A devout Catholic would not go around breaking laws and killing people for money from anonimous corporations. Now a delusional Catholic with that whole "God commanded me to kill so it must be done" mentality I could see working :D Or something like Sam J from Pulp Fiction could work well too ;) |
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Oct 16 2006, 11:05 PM
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#36
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Tell that to Al Capone, who was indeed quite a devout Catholic. |
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Oct 17 2006, 12:12 AM
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#37
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Target Group: Members Posts: 3 Joined: 15-October 06 Member No.: 9,628 |
actually, I was thinking more like an exorcist or perhaps someone who follows those verses that talk about Jesus being with prostitutes and druggies and what have you. or the crazy "god told me to" route is also an option. an inquisitor-esque character would be cool too, in my opinion. however, taking money from corporations to kill or what have you doesn't exactly fit the bill for a praciticing clergymember. however, I think that perhaps he would ask God to forgive him of his sins every time he did something sinful, being as God loves everyone equally. so in my opinion, it doesn't really matter if he's going around killing things, as long as a) it's the only way, and b) he asks for forgiveness. and gets roleplayed with a very very heavy concious. but right now a mormon magician sounds a bit cooler. I don't know though, a rosary would be a pretty cool focus. |
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Oct 17 2006, 03:31 AM
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#38
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,089 Joined: 4-October 05 Member No.: 7,813 |
i dunno... competitive with the CTR ring? i think not :P
(actually, i've been pondering writing up an actual mormon tradition, 'cause it's gotten stuck in my head now... so i may post something in the next little while. then again, i may also just think about it a lot, forget, put it off, or otherwise not post anything at all, so don't get your hopes up too much... ) |
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Oct 17 2006, 04:04 AM
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#39
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Exactly what I was thinking, and he certainly wasn't the last "family" member to fall under that catagory. Basically it works on the Emo Philips Principle. “When I was a kid I used to pray every night for a new bicycle. Then I realised that the Lord doesn't work that way so I stole one and asked Him to forgive me.” |
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Oct 17 2006, 05:19 AM
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#40
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,537 Joined: 27-August 06 From: Albuquerque NM Member No.: 9,234 |
Or, as my Italian grandparents used to joke "Italian men are only in church 3 times: When they are baptized, married and executed." |
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Oct 17 2006, 08:17 AM
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#41
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Italian men are executed in Church? :eek:
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Oct 17 2006, 10:18 AM
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#42
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
more like they visit after the execution, in a coffin...
(ok so you probably was just pulling a fast one, still...) |
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Oct 17 2006, 12:51 PM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 633 Joined: 23-February 06 Member No.: 8,301 |
The more I've talked about it with others, the more I realize that religious characters are not so difficult to manage as it originally seems. Of course there are the misguided zealots and delusional criminals (Mafia Catholicism, for example). But there are other possibilities. How about a Jewish Kaballist (if a Mage, I would use a custom tradition, rather than the one in Street Magic) who believes that moral protections don't extend to outsiders? He's not a random killer, but he has no qualms about killing when on the job, unless the target is a Jew. Perhaps he has connections with Jewish organized crime.
There's also always the possibility of a character that refuses jobs that fall outside of their moral code, or ones who hold themselves to a high moral standard, but not their allies. Religion can be very helpful in giving a character a complex and interesting personality, as long as you know a little something about the religion and realize that religion is not black and white. There's a lot of grey between the zealots and the bitter atheists. |
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Oct 17 2006, 01:35 PM
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#44
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,002 Joined: 22-April 06 From: Canada Member No.: 8,494 |
I had rules in SR3 for a Christian Mage and they were as follows:
Can only be Sorcer Adept or Enchanter Adept +2 dice Health spells +2 dice Detection spells -2 dice Combat spells -2 dice Manipulation spells These bonuses/weaknesses are doubled on Sundays This made for a good "ideal" Christian, one who "channeled" the Holy Spirit through him/her self to do God's work. For SR4 I would do the following: goto my webpage http://www.geocities.com/tbrminsanity/index.html goto my SR page and magic traditions (though there are some errors: Combat => Fire Detection => Earth Health => Water Illusion => Air Manipulation => Man Drain: Willpower + Charisma Then follow the Christianity additional rules bellow. For Catholicism I would also add that you can conjure saints (Spirits of Man) that you could ask for guidance or protection. |
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Oct 17 2006, 04:37 PM
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#45
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panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hmm, i can see that fire spirit manifest as a welltrained individual dressed in a robe and weilding a burning sword 8)
as for the rest, im not so sure... |
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Oct 17 2006, 04:41 PM
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#46
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,532 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 769 |
I'm actually playing a catholic magician. Christian Theurgy is from Street Magic (p37) and works quite well.
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Oct 17 2006, 04:42 PM
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#47
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
different choirs/classes of angels
ex.: seraphim, cherubim,etc. There are others, just can't recall them off the top of my head. |
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Oct 17 2006, 04:45 PM
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#48
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
Since I've now decided I can answer every question simply by quoting, I provide these:
Connor: Now you will receive us. Murphy: We do not ask for your poor, or your hungry. Connor: We do not want your tired and sick. Murphy: It is your corrupt we claim. Connor: It is your evil that will be sought by us. Murphy: With every breath, we shall hunt them down. Connor: Each day we will spill their blood, 'til it rains down from the skies. Murphy: Do not kill. Do not rape. Do not steal. These are principles which every man of every faith can embrace. Connor: These are not polite suggestions, these are codes of behavior, and those of you that ignore them will pay the dearest cost. Murphy: There are varying degrees of evil. We urge you lesser forms of filth, not to push the bounds and cross over, in to true corruption, into our domain. Connor: For if you do, one day you will look behind you and you will see we three, and on that day you will reap it. Murphy: And we will send you to whatever god you wish. And Il Duce: Never shall innocent blood be shed, yet the blood of the wicked shall flow like a river. The Three shall spread their blackened wings and be the vengeful striking hammer of God. And Connor, Murphy: And shepherds we shall be, for thee my Lord for thee, Power hath descended forth from thy hand, that our feet may swiftly carry out thy command, we shall flow a river forth to thee, and teeming with souls shall it ever be. In nomine patris, et filii... [they cock their guns] Connor, Murphy: ...et spiritus sancti. [blam] And then lastly Zoe: "Preacher, don't the Bible have some pretty specific things to say about killing? Book: "Quite specific. It is, however, somewhat fuzzier on the subject of kneecaps." and then Book: I've been out of the abbey two days. I've beaten a lawman senseless, I've fallen in with criminals, I've watched the Captain shoot the man I swore to protect ... and I'm not even sure that I think he was wrong. Inara: Shepard ... Book: I believe I just ... I think I'm on the wrong ship. Inara: Maybe. Or maybe you're exactly where you ought to be. |
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Oct 17 2006, 04:47 PM
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#49
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
Seraphim, Cherubim, Ofanim, Elohim, Malakim, Kyriotates, Mercurians, Grigori. |
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Oct 17 2006, 04:52 PM
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#50
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
10 karma for lorechaser, for both posts
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