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> Essence, what is it good for?, Absolutely nothin'!
Straight Razor
post Oct 15 2006, 11:58 PM
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ok. i was thinking, any one ever though of having Tn's for mana based spells be the same as it is with the healing spell.

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Dog
post Oct 16 2006, 12:10 AM
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I am now.
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Herald of Verjig...
post Oct 16 2006, 01:32 AM
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The net effect I see is that it changes the mana-tech paradigm to be more in line with the significantly contrarian nature of the two as displayed in Arcanum ™. Some may prefer this magic XOR technology style, but as someone who always hacked my Arcanum techie to be able to learn teleport, resurrect, shrink and invisibility, I am averse to playing under that rule.

Try it and let us know how it works.
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Glyph
post Oct 16 2006, 01:33 AM
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Considering that most sammies probably have a fractional Essense, that means that spellcasters will be looking at TNs of 9, while sammies will not have to worry about Willpower except for something they don't want too low, as it affects their Combat Pool. Also, those same sammies also tend to have very high Body scores, so spells like powerbolt won't be effective either. I foresee a lot of mages having a sudden enthusiasm for damaging and control manipulation spells.

I'm not knocking your house rule, just pointing out that implementing it will dramatically shift the balance of power between mages and cybered folk, to the detriment of the mages (which, as far as I know, might be your intention). And low Essense will actually be a good thing to have.

On the other hand, adepts will be pretty easy to blast, and pity the poor shapeshifters with their Essenses of 8. :)
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Straight Razor
post Oct 16 2006, 05:43 AM
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I'm sorry my train of thought de-railed.
what i wanted was for the TN to be there essence for mana spells.

so the shape shifter is hard to nail with a mana spell, but the sammy is easy picking.
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Glyph
post Oct 16 2006, 06:59 AM
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Hmm... almost too easy pickings. I mean, even a sammie with a Willpower of 6 is already in trouble against a spellslinger. He only has his Attribute to roll to resist the spell, while the spellslinger can use his skill, spell pool, and in some cases totem bonuses, an elemental aiding sorcery, or magical foci. Now picture the same lopsided contest, only the mage has a TN of 2. This really isn't good for the sammie, and by that I mean that sammies really become close to impossible to play - who wants to play someone who can get killed or knocked out with such ease?
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nezumi
post Oct 16 2006, 02:19 PM
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I like the original idea much better. After all, the game is already setup so a mage can beat a sam such that the same can't fight back, but the reverse isn't really true. I would actually prefer to make low essence an edge against magic. For one, it puts some more bite into the phrase "I'm more machine than man now."

I still want to play a character who doesn't make willpower tests but object resistance tests.
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lorechaser
post Oct 16 2006, 02:59 PM
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Agreed. There's already a disparity between mages and sammies, to some degree or another. To make it trivial for a mage to affect a sammie, even if only with mana spells, would make mages the be all end all, I think.

However, I like the other option as well - it does create an odd situation, though, where a sammie is simply inserting random cheap, high essence items in to their bodies to make them more magic resistant....
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Dog
post Oct 16 2006, 04:05 PM
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lorechaser
post Oct 16 2006, 05:43 PM
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"Hell, you got anything that can be installed incorrectly? I feel like I got about .5 essence to burn...."
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fistandantilus4....
post Oct 16 2006, 09:48 PM
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this does happen when essence goes to negative in the case of cyberzombies. The negative essence because a modifier (absolute value -3 essence becomes a +3t#), so there is soem precedence if you want to apply it. The reason though is that the rituals used in cyberzombies create a hazing effect on the astral, sort of like a mobile background count. That wouldn't be the case in normal cyber, but you can always change that.
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Gabriel (Argus #...
post Oct 21 2006, 08:20 AM
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QUOTE (nezumi)
I still want to play a character who doesn't make willpower tests but object resistance tests.

I hear ya, brother. Iron without, Iron within.

I don't wanna try and make this into a big "magic vrs. cyber" thread, but from my recent experiences (in sr4*), well-made sammies have a fair fighting chance against magicians; as long as they fight smart. The real kicker is LOS; if he can't see you, he can't hurt you. If he can see you, you can shoot him. Better yet my wired-friend, hit him before he throws up his "increased reflexes" spell and shank him in the ribs before it's his action :D (that scene made me very happy). You could always blow him up with a tossed grenade.

I digress; my point is that in a stand up fight -Cyborg versus Spellcaster- the Magician can probobly blast the Razorguy (perhaps at a great cost in drain). But as shadowrunners, should we be betting on a "stand-up fair-fight"? I'd say both have a decent chance against each other.

It might be kinda cool to make cyberware a little more scary, and make everybody more like cyberzombies. Sort of a magical pollution due to the perversion of nature. In cyberzombies, I'm not sure what causes the background count and magic-hindering effects, but I think it has something to do with the scary-wicked-voodoo-magic ritual of darkness they use to tether the soul to the corpse-o-matic.

*My experiences as a player in SR3 made me beleive that there is no viable reason why the Awakened didn't enslave mankind and rule the Earth. I think the GM messed up the rules. But I think these concepts apply equally to both editions.

...Sometimes, my posts are relative novellas. I apologize for the windy-ness.
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