 The Warez "Scene" in SR4, What is it like? |
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 Oct 19 2006, 04:09 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130  |
I have a few questions about warez in SR4. In case you don't know, warez is a common term used for pirated software, games, music, books, and pretty much anything that is stored electronically that it can be cracked, hacked, stolen, or made to be used freely. Their ideal is that all information should be free even if it means stealing other people's hard work and intellectual property.
From a game mechanic view I would say that right away anything downloaded would have to be cracked, even though in today's age everything is cracked by the team that distributes the warez. Though besides the obvious what about: How prominent is the Warez Scene? How closely is it tracked by the government and anti-warez groups? Is there anything from SR3 that would help? |
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 Oct 19 2006, 04:16 PM
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#2
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,040 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Well, the big question there is one of game balance.
If all software was available for free, Hackers and Riggers would not have to spend any Nuyen on that stuff. "I downloaded all programs and a dozen Agents for free; all Rating 6." So, if you do not want this, you have to declare the Warez scene effectively dead. Then look for reasons, why it is dead. ;) Bye Thanee |
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Oct 19 2006, 04:24 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 565 Joined: 7-January 04 Member No.: 5,965 |
depends on what you consider warez.... i would say at any given time, theres going to be a large selection of music, movies/tv, games, pornography, and sims, as well as a few BTLs availible for free as warez if you know where to look.
in regards to actual programs and softs, these are a bit risky... while there are some out there, your much more likely to get a nasty virus than a usefull program. having a personafix in your linguasoft to send all your money to an unlisted account is just one of the horror stories... basicly, its a lot like the internet now. you can find a fair amount of abandonware for free, as well as the usual shareware. stuff that will at best amount to a rating 1 with a crappy user interface.... and completely useless for anything hacker-related (leave too big a datatrail to cover). |
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Oct 19 2006, 04:26 PM
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#4
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
Malware is probably the most likely.
Figure the Warez scene is probably prolifent as it is now with games and productivity software, however inserted code to defeat copy protection that you do not do yourself may very well contain MalWare that will leave you open to all kinds of problems. And a serious hacker would in all likelyhood have a very real desire to avoid freely distributed software and instead get it from someone who he can trust, even though that trust costs nuyen. Figure also your nuyen isn't necessarily going to MicroDeck for the newest version of Edit, but it's going to a hacker friend or group who you can trust. |
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Oct 19 2006, 04:36 PM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,532 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Calgary, Canada Member No.: 769 |
QFT I'd say that if a hacker wanted to get a program (that has game affecting stats) I'd require a data search test followed by a hacking test. Each test has a threshold equal to the rating of the program. The data search determines if you can even find a SOTA version of the program you are looking for. Pass the hacking test and you have cleared any possible virus' or other malicious traps from the file which you are now free to use just as if you had purchased it. Fail it and you discover that there is a problem with the file and are unable to fix it, rendering the file useless. Glitch or Critical Glitch your comlink is now host to a virus, dataminer or other nasty surprise the nature of which is up to the DM. |
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Oct 19 2006, 05:26 PM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Hacking apps in SR4 is rather trivial. With 8-12 dice it'd take less than 12-hours to crack the protection and distribute freely. As such, pirated software is the standard (per SR4 description) rather than the exception, however there is no mention of the cost difference between Pirated and non-Pirated warez. The odd part of trying to sell pirated warez brings into play a lot of questions. Once you've cracked it, everyone can have it. If someone pays the nuyen to buy cracked warez and gives to all their friends and associates then there is no longer a demand for it and the price for it would drop. In order to keep demand high, you would need to offer better and better warez at a higher cost. Lower rated warez are probably as common as dirt, with higher-end warez costing more. I think this might already be reflected in the cost gap from Rating 1-3 to 4-6 in SR4. If you wanted to add a roleplaying slant on this, then suppose the warez dealer gets busted (they all seem to eventually), I would imagine he's have no problem giving up the names of his customers (contact Loyalty anyone?) if he faced enought trouble. |
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Oct 19 2006, 05:29 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
QFF The reason I say this is because it isn't reflective of how the current Warez "Scene" works. Putting out programs and softs with viruses and malware attached is against the ideal of the Warez "Scene". In reality, when a warez group does something like this the release is "nuked", meaning it is no longer distributed and all current copies are deleted . This is actually a huge hit to the warez group's credibility and I can't believe I am saying this "honor". Warez groups are rated on things like: Expediency of the release (Were they the first?) Quality of the release (Was it nuked?) Thoroughness (Does the program "phone home"?, Is any copy\theft protection present or removed?, etc) The thing is, people only download warez from trusted warez release groups, at least the people that know the scene. That, and when they download the release they only download from a trusted source. The situation you described sounds reminiscent of someone that doesn't know anything about the scene and is ignorant of how to properly and safely obtain warez. The above described quote is something I would expect from the everyday user who is using a filesharing program to obtain warez rather than using the adequate outlets. Not only that, it would also require poor discretion on that user's part, not only blind ignorance. |
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Oct 19 2006, 05:35 PM
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#8
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
I would think that it would be a very dangerous business to distribute warez over the matrix. Mainly because at the root of the matrix, you have corporations providing the infrastructure and access...with everything being trackable and corporations having so much power, I doubt that a rating 6 app would be up for very long...and if it was, I am sure the cracker could easily be tracked down and "dealt with" promptly.
Unlike in today's world, the matrix is not open. Yeah, it is freely accessible by the public, i.e. AR. But overall, I see a much more corporately controlled environment...so, while I have no problem with a hacker removing the copy protection and distributing those programs to his group, I don't think that "anyone" is going to just load up on rating 6 apps via the matrix. If someone did try it in my game, they would have some heat on them pretty quickly, both virtually and physically... |
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Oct 19 2006, 05:36 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 398 Joined: 16-August 06 Member No.: 9,130 |
That is if the software is being bought. The current scene frowns upon selling the software. Remember the ideal. That doesn't mean that I won't walk down New York City Manhattan streets without people shouting out "DVD". Of course it is sold, but this again is for the everyday person. Anyone that knows the scene and what it is, knows the ideal and will have a source to get the warez. |
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Oct 19 2006, 06:13 PM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
As a Hacker would I use someone else's warez as my agents? Hell no, if you cracked em and can use em whats to stop another hacker who know the same software to hack your agents?
The thing about independent programmers is that they code there software differently than something that is mass produced. It would be harder to crack an individual and unique code than it would to break a mass produced code, why?, because everyone knows what to expect from a legal published corp product than say someone on the street who can tinker around with his program or code hours on end without a crop deadline or user friendly guidelines. |
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Oct 19 2006, 06:40 PM
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#11
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,706 Joined: 30-June 06 From: Fort Wayne, IN Member No.: 8,814 |
Again, I think the problem here is not the cracking, its the distribution. I don't think the matrix is going to house all these warez, just doesn't feel like the corps would allow it.
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Oct 19 2006, 06:57 PM
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#12
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,040 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
If the corps could control the Matrix, there would be no shadownet, etc.
They can't. Much like today noone can control the Internet. Bye Thanee |
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Oct 19 2006, 06:58 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
Contrary to much of the posting going on above me, I imagine illegal software distrobustion is probably pretty high in the Hacker community.
However, the availability of said programs is offset by the matter of the code being used exploiting security holes inside of defensive computer programs. When you load up the latest version of Black Hammer, and give someone a whack, it's not quite the same as a 'matrix whack' to their icon. That may be what a scripted animation would display, but that's about the only line of similarity. It'd be much closer along the lines of, as I said, exploiting security holes, inserting malicious code, and all with the intent of crashing the program completely. As illegal software proliferates, it becomes more likely that the hole is known, or discovered, and it will be patched, or a new version of the software that it target's will be released. So it's probably like this, though perhaps you'd disagree: Warez available on the matrix to most people who are able to locate it will be outdated versions of programs that were used, once upon a time, to hack through the matrix. The exploits will have long since been discovered, and the liklihood of effectively acting as little more than a nice string of code to reference for future projects is minimal. The types of programs that Hackers will like to use, are fresh, new exploits, unknown, or as of yet unpatched, into the systems they'd like to hack. Because they're bleeding edge in the hacker community, there is a price tag associated with them. Without a price tag, you're looking at serious favors from high level contacts. And with neither a price tag, nor a serious favor from a high level contact, you're looking at the 'h@wtzor l337 hack!' program being behind the electronic intrustion/counter-intrusion curve of usefulness. |
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Oct 19 2006, 07:03 PM
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#14
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
Even today you have different distirbution sties being shut down, usally with legal action. I'd think it would be much easier for the corps in SR , since "legal" is more a matter of advertising and "look how nice we are", or loop holes. All they need to do is send in a shadowteam or even corp deckers when they find a matrix site distributing their programs that they paid to have written.
There's also those nifty little decking programs that the corps write and sell that work just fine, until you're on the corp's system. Then all of a sudden your stealth program craps out. |
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Oct 19 2006, 09:19 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
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Oct 19 2006, 09:24 PM
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#16
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,040 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
They try, they just don't succeed. ;)
Bye Thanee |
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Oct 19 2006, 09:45 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
I agree with Steak and Spirits.
In addition, I have two suggestions: First, the continuous fixng of security holes (and the release of new legal software) can be modeled by periodic SOTA penalties to program ratings - more frequently for less legal/higher rating stuff. Second, you can get around having to constantly pay to upgrade all your software by forming a "Hacker Group" where you share the programming burden of keeping your tools up to date. |
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Oct 19 2006, 10:19 PM
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#18
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 18-September 05 Member No.: 7,758 |
I don't think that software security for SR works like it does for us in reality. The copying rules seemed to read to me that the program has to be hacked per installation. This means several hours per installation - doable, but not trivial (unless you have your agents do it, and then it still takes some time and resources tied up).
Also, keep in mind that Hackers aren't going to want to give up their best tricks either - why make your own competition? I can see a lot of rating 2-3 progs out there, some 4s if you know where to look, but 5-6 will probably cost you a few grand.. if the hacker wants to risk selling to someone who might get busted and roll on them. |
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Oct 19 2006, 10:39 PM
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#19
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Actually, they are closer to reality than ever before. ;)
Where did you get that impression from? |
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Oct 19 2006, 11:17 PM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 18-September 05 Member No.: 7,758 |
Here's the long and short of it. I can try to make this make more sense after midterms - next wednesday. As it is, it's terribly subjective.
Pg. 228 Something about that grammar suggests to me that it's a one shot deal. It's a subtle thing, and I certainly could be wrong about thier intent, but that sentence seems to put the emphasis of copy-protection-breaking on the act of duplicating rather than changing the programs status to duplicatable. The vaguery is that the conditional is involving 2 actions. Further complicating things is the use of future tense for both halves of the conditional. To me that sentence reads: " If you want to duplicate a program, you must break the copy protection" - implication each time (both actions in the future) English is robust enough for that same sentence to mean: "If the copy protection is broken, you may copy the program." - implication repeatable. But it seems that there are cleaner ways to express that sentiment. |
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Oct 19 2006, 11:21 PM
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#21
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I do believe that the powers-that-be have since clarified this to mean that ...
... is the correct interpretation. I just don't know where at the moment. |
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Oct 19 2006, 11:45 PM
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#22
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 500 Joined: 4-September 06 From: Salt Lake UT Member No.: 9,299 |
Disclamer: I know nothing about RL warez.
But; couldn't the Warez situation in 2070 be influenced by the conecepts that computer use hacking/cracking is much more realtime and aggressive? Aren't software corps actively hunting Warez groups and unauthorized users? AFAIK if i'm using a "pirate" copy of an Adobe program today (which i'm not because...) the only issue is that i needed someones elses product redgistration code and i can't take advantage of the Adobe's on line support infrastructure. If i'm useing stolen software in 2070 what are the odds that an agent hanging out in the matrix is going to detect it, report it, and do something evil to my gear/mind/work. I know that a good Warez group is going to "clean up" the software befor they distribute--removeing DRM/spyware/mallware/databombs--but they can't provide a legit redgistration code can they? So if I have a pirate copy of WallSpace Sculpt. and I'm sculpting skins that make the whole town look like b00bs, could the developers see that my public works were done with an unredgistered copy of their software? If I'm running around the park playing Miracle Shooter 'Cowboys & Indians' eddition (heh, I miss finger-bullet games) is some agent of the developer going to slag my comlink because I'm broadcasting the fact that i have an unredgistered copy? |
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Oct 20 2006, 05:24 AM
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#23
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jacked in Group: Admin Posts: 9,040 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 463 |
Only if noone removes/alters those parts of the code. ;)
Bye Thanee |
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Oct 20 2006, 05:49 AM
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#24
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,000 Joined: 17-November 05 From: Halifax, Canada Member No.: 7,975 |
It's been mentioned a few times in the books that Shadowland is always on the move... you first have to find Shadowland in order to log in. Now if the corps didn't have so much control over the Matrix, then Shadowland could have a nice little private host permanent address (like my webserver from my home computer) and be happy... But that's not the case. Shadowland is constantly cycling commcodes and addresses so that those who don't know how to find it, won't. |
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Oct 20 2006, 05:54 AM
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#25
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
Those are not mutually exclusive:
Some shadow networks are peer-based, some centralized. Both shift access to keep the lusers out - corp hackers are as likely to find them as runner hackers. |
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