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> new gm and i need help, using sr 4 th
catman25
post Oct 23 2006, 10:45 PM
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ok I need to basics.. Lets say a guy wants to shoot a guy ..how to you figure out damage and all that ..Im used to ..example.. you got 260 hp and he fires a gun and hits you for 30 damage you now have 230 hp...
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Demerzel
post Oct 23 2006, 10:52 PM
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So you want us to just quote out the entire combat section of the core rulebook?

Or just the ranged combat section + firearms tables?
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Lagomorph
post Oct 23 2006, 10:59 PM
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You got it catman, combat in SR4 works pretty much like every other RPG combat system:

1. Roll to hit
2. Roll to defend
3. Calulate damage
4. Subtract damage from current HP
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catman25
post Oct 23 2006, 11:02 PM
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ok how do you get character hp? all i see in the character sheet is condition boxes..I just got the book yesterday shadowrun 4th and last time i played was shadowrun 1 and 2nd just showed up on shelves then i went in army.sooo im uhhh.. dumb... Thing is i have more experiance then anyone else so i decided to give gm'in a whirl
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Adam
post Oct 23 2006, 11:09 PM
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The Damage rules are on p. 152. Condition Monitors are calculated as per p. 65.
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Fortune
post Oct 23 2006, 11:21 PM
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Since you do have the SR4 core rulebook, you might be well served by actually reading the appropriate sections a couple of times first. Then come back with some more specific questions.
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catman25
post Oct 23 2006, 11:27 PM
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ok 1 guy has a ares predator iv with damage at 5p. the guy firering rolls agility + combat skill and get a 3, 2, 5, 6 Then the guy defending rolls reaction and gets 5,5,6,1 .. Thats a miss right ??? If i got that lets say he rolled a 1,1,2,5 its a hit and he has to take 5 p off from the condition box which is 8 plus body rounded up .. so lets say 8 + 4 body = 12 which after all that leaves him with 7 p left in condition box??? I have a feeling i havent gotta "it"
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catman25
post Oct 23 2006, 11:28 PM
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reading and understanding it is 2 different things lol...I read it but dont get it ..plus my fear of doing it wrong ..i just like a thumbs up
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James McMurray
post Oct 23 2006, 11:32 PM
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QUOTE
the guy firering rolls agility + combat skill and get a 3, 2, 5, 6 Then the guy defending rolls reaction and gets 5,5,6,1 .. Thats a miss right ???


Yes.

QUOTE
If i got that lets say he rolled a 1,1,2,5 its a hit and he has to take 5 p off from the condition box which is 8 plus body rounded up ..


He has to soak 6P. 5P base plus one for the net hit.

You're missing the soak step, where you roll Body + Armor to further lower the damage.

QUOTE
8 + 4 body = 12


If he has a 4 body that's only 2 extra boxes of condition monitor. If he has a 8 bodt then he'll have 12 total boxes.

Every 3 boxes of damage you take puts you at -1 die to most actions. If all your boxes are filled you're either unconscious (if it was stun damage) or dying (if it was physical).
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Fortune
post Oct 23 2006, 11:41 PM
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QUOTE (catman25)
reading and understanding it is 2 different things lol...I read it but dont get it ..plus my fear of doing it wrong ..i just like a thumbs up

It's cool. Your follow up question was of a much more manageable scale. ;)
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catman25
post Oct 23 2006, 11:42 PM
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can you please reiterate the soak part?
QUOTE

He has to soak 6P. 5P base plus one for the net hit.

You're missing the soak step, where you roll Body + Armor to further lower the damage.
if armor is 2 and body is 4 what he rolls six dice right
?? what if he gets 2,3,2,5,6,6 what does that do to the ending damage
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blakkie
post Oct 23 2006, 11:46 PM
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QUOTE (catman25 @ Oct 23 2006, 05:42 PM)
can you please reiterate the soak part?
QUOTE

He has to soak 6P. 5P base plus one for the net hit.

You're missing the soak step, where you roll Body + Armor to further lower the damage.
if armor is 2 and body is 4 what he rolls six dice right
?? what if he gets 2,3,2,5,6,6 what does that do to the ending damage

3 hits on the soak roll, so you subtract the 3 from the 6 boxes he was going to get. So you mark off 3 boxes on his Physical damage track.

He'll also have a -1 die penalty for every roll he makes until he has at least 1 of those boxes healed up (to drop him back to 2 boxes, where there is no penalty).
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ShadowDragon
post Oct 23 2006, 11:52 PM
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Just FYI because it doesn't seem like you've grasped this part yet, 5 and 6 is ALWAYS a hit. 1, 2, 3 and 4 is ALWAYS a fail/miss. So instead of saying "so I rolled 2, 3, 3, and 5" you can say "I rolled 1 hit." This is one of the simplified aspects that's new to SR4.
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Demerzel
post Oct 24 2006, 12:01 AM
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Well, if you rolled a 1,1,2,5 thats one hit and a glitch. SO at this point the GM steps in and makes something up off the top of his head that is not regulated by any specific mechanic.

For example the bullet hit the target in a hard metal spot (Zippo lighter) and ricoshet back and you shot your eye out. I told you not to ask Santa for that BB Rifle.
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laughingowl
post Oct 24 2006, 12:18 AM
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QUOTE (catman25)
ok 1 guy has a ares predator iv with damage at 5p. the guy firering rolls agility + combat skill and get a 3, 2, 5, 6 Then the guy defending rolls reaction and gets 5,5,6,1 .. Thats a miss right ??? If i got that lets say he rolled a 1,1,2,5 its a hit and he has to take 5 p off from the condition box which is 8 plus body rounded up .. so lets say 8 + 4 body = 12 which after all that leaves him with 7 p left in condition box??? I have a feeling i havent gotta "it"

Also as a small note (not to confuse you farther)

The defender in this case 'glitched' ( Atleast half his dice came up ones).


Since he did get atleast a success it is not a 'critical glitch' (half dice ones and NO successes).


the exact nature of a 'glitch' is up to the GM, but the 'advise' is to be something disadvantegous and enteraining.

A 'glitch' shouldn/t be something disaterous. Although a cirtical glitch could be getting into that range.

Good Example of 'glitches'

Device jam/stun/malfunction. (dud bullet, requiring manual ejecting (simple action) to clear. Unexpected (though repairable) device failure: Batteries die in com/flashlight/nightvision googles, etc).

Fumble/stumble/tumble: Character drops what they were using, falls prone if trying to move, etc.


In your example my first choice would be dodging character goes prone (tripped over something when dodging).

Other choices if prone feels 'too harsh':

Some minor device was hit instead of character... It was a 'miss' since the bullet hit his XYZ. While not cirtical to the run, it is a minor inconvienance (or perhaps not effecting the 'run' at all just a minor Nuyen drain and/or annoyance.

In dodging he jerked out of the way hard enough XYZ falls out of his pocket (snags and is yanked off his belt, etc). Allow a perceoption (2) to notice the loss of the item. Again this should be a 'useful' (or moderatly expensive item) but should be a mission 'critical' item: (the chip they are extracting, the needed passcard, etc).

Now if the defending character had rolled 1,1,2,4 then he would have had a critical glitch.

This should be more serious.

This could be:

Trips, but in such a way to be damaging. If a 'weapon' was in hand perhaps doing an addtional 'base' damage of their weapon to them. (no 'defense roll' but allow a soak roll), as they shoot themselves in the leg, slip on their knife, etc.

A significant piece of equipment is damaged/destroyed. The sammy 'breaks' their main gun (or alteast breaks it long enough to require a toolkit and a repair roll before usable),

Could be as smiple as the character twists/turns/etc to avoid the bullet in such as away it strikes a they 'dodge' INTO the attack (perhaps ignore any armor on the soak roll, or even eleminated the soak roll entirely).

Glitches should be annoying / embarassing but not really pose a chance for 'failure'

Critical glitches should be painful but not a 'game over'.

Admitedly being pure GM call, it will take some time to learn to pick ones that reflect what you (and your players) feel is the appropriate level of discomfort.
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laughingowl
post Oct 24 2006, 12:38 AM
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Catman:

Ok to play the whole thing through again:

Guy#1 shots: Rolls agility + pistols dice (+/- possible modiferes : range, lighting, wound penalties, smartgun, etc). and rolls 3,2,5,6. This would be reported as saying he got 2 hits (5 or 6)

Guy#2 makes a reaction rolls to defend reaction (as save for 'full defense' there is no skill to defend against ranged attacks). and gets 1,1,2,5. This would be noted a glitch with 1 hit. (glitch since half (or more) of the dice are ones, yet there are some successes so not a critical glitch.

Guy#1 would then calculate total damage: base + net hits, so 5+1=6

Guy#2 would make a soak roll: Body + Armor (balistic in this case) and gets: 2,3,2,5,6,6 or 3 hits. So he takes 6 - 3 physical damage and fills in three boxes on his confition track. (which would be 8 + bod/2)

The GM also needs to determing the 'glitch' effect. In this case he says, You notice Guy#1 about to shot you and jerk yourself back around the corner. Unfortunately you cut the corner alittle close and clip the wall. Your head rings a little and you see a few stars floating in front of your eyes. Take a -1 die penalty for all actions for the next turn.


IT the player is also new, it would be a good idea to point out / remind that they will also be taking an additional die penalty since they now have three boxes filled in on their conidtion track. (every three boxes filled in is a culmative -1 penalty). So for the 'next' turn he is at a -2 and until atleast one box of damage is healed he will be at -1 even once the effect from the glitch wears off

NOTE: one important thing to note is 'soak' rolls are NOT modified by wound penalties. (and while I have not seen it directly stated my interpertation has always been by ANY penalties (save for lowering of the reflected stat). So if shot again the SOAK roll would still be 6 dice. Now the 'defense' roll would be at -2 dice, but the soak roll would still be the full roll.
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knasser
post Oct 24 2006, 08:12 AM
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Catman, this doesn't answer your question but since you're new to GM'ing Shadowrun and because your use of the term "hp" suggests you're coming from D&D, some good advice about Shadowrun combat is that it is dangerous. Much more so than D&D, anyway. When you run your game, be quite cautious with the opponents you throw at the PCs. Even an average security guard can kill a PC with a few good rolls. And because physical damage results in penalties to your actions, a character with half his "hp" gone is potentially in a bad way. He'll have reduced dice for most actions.

Picture D&D where no-one advances in hp with level. That's Shadowrun. Characters improve and become more powerful just like D&D, but your 12th level fighter still only has 15hp. He can dish out a lot of damage, but he never becomes invulnerable. That's why Shadowrun games usually have a lot of sneaking around and stealth in them.
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catman25
post Oct 24 2006, 07:14 PM
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thanks for all your help....It makes sense now. Is there any where you can download print blueprints /maps of area's like doc wagon? Um fixers.. just to give realism to placement of CHARACTERS.. im not a drawer at all... Think it would be cool. getting some in dept detail doctor offices and use them in a mission... Or how bout layouts of a office floor plan ...I also plan on finding video and puttin it on the tv.. if ther hacking succeeds in hacking video survaliance..To bad people or fasa couldnt come out with suppliments like that ,,,Make it more real...Any one play that computer game where you get real calls from different people and real life missions...Forgot the name of it,.,,Got a call from a lady saying ..Im not sure who you are but got your number from your friend ...I need your help..then the story goes on ..Check this site and i uploaded a movie with the details...They are pissed i stole the footage but youll know what to do with it...It was awesome!!
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Fortune
post Oct 24 2006, 09:34 PM
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Just do a Google search for "floor plans" or "architectural blueprints" or the like, and you will find a plethora of material. :)
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knasser
post Oct 24 2006, 09:48 PM
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QUOTE (catman25)
thanks for all your help....It makes sense now. Is there any where you can download print blueprints /maps of area's like doc wagon? Um fixers.. just to give realism to placement of CHARACTERS.. im not a drawer at all... Think it would be cool. getting some in dept detail doctor offices and use them in a mission... Or how bout layouts of a office floor plan ...I also plan on finding video and puttin it on the tv.. if ther hacking succeeds in hacking video survaliance..To bad people or fasa couldnt come out with suppliments like that ,,,Make it more real...Any one play that computer game where you get real calls from different people and real life missions...Forgot the name of it,.,,Got a call from a lady saying ..Im not sure who you are but got your number from your friend ...I need your help..then the story goes on ..Check this site and i uploaded a movie with the details...They are pissed i stole the footage but youll know what to do with it...It was awesome!!


Can't say I played that game, but I think I heard about it. It's a neat idea. I've used pre-recorded audio in my game before. Get a friend or family member (preferably someone the players don't know) to read some plot element. Friends and family in my experience love the chance to die horribly on a tape recorder, particularly if they can end it with timeless phrases like "It's coming for me! Mother! It's coming for me! ARGHHHHH!!!!!"

The video element is a good idea. If you're new to the setting as well as the rules, then I don't know if you're yet familiar with Mr. Johnson. Mr. Johnson has lots of different races, faces and voices. But he's always Mr. Johnson. :) Possibly you should stick someone you know in a hat and have the Johnson record their mission onto video for the start of the session. Would be a great way to get atmosphere and engage people into role-playing.

:D
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