 Shadowrun Plot line, What do we all want to see in SR4? |
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 Oct 30 2006, 09:49 AM
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#26
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Great, I'm a Dragon...  Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698  |
:D I knew it! Only a non-german could suggest a new french empire. ;) |
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Oct 30 2006, 02:56 PM
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#27
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Target Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: 29-October 06 From: Grenoble, France Member No.: 9,730 |
you can say Karolus Magnus if you wish :spin:
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Oct 30 2006, 03:24 PM
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#28
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
Low level games (My team worries more about if they get to eat this month) but I'm also a fan of the Big Backstory ... You have to toss rocks in of all sizes to get the best ripples.
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Oct 30 2006, 05:33 PM
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#29
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
I agree I would like to see some of the back story connect with some of us small timers. Although I think they are doing that with the shadowrun supplimental here and there. Sometimes the information the books give is few and far between. While I know they cant give us everything they need something extra to let players and GM know where they are at.
Thus is why Missions is a great idea. I would love to see more cons (I have yet to go to one) with a chance to interact with the developers, share my love for the game, and convince them to create a new prime runners book. I see it detailing alternate adventues like in the missions book. I would also like to get more input on how to run high, mid to low level campains, and how they conncect to the greater world. (I'm big on details and staying within bounds of storylines, yet I like to try and think outside the box). BTW I would like to know whats going on in Africa, maybe a new plotline could develop (SR is so global period). There is potential for some great sprawls, big factions, and introcate story lines that could pop up in "the motherland". |
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Oct 30 2006, 08:39 PM
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#30
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 124 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 2,072 |
Been a few developments I want to see
- I know it is a few years away but the Olympics have got to go to Denver. Man that would be delicious. - What was Ghostwalker doing and learning out in the planes. - We need a big war, maybe,. I’m thinking the Azzies, I mean they’ve thrown around enough threats. I’d like to see maybe CAS or Amazonia finally go at them - Lofwyr and S-K. I mean it has been cute these last decades but enough is enough, time to take them down a peg. - Good Lord has the Huk won independence yet? (Cant remember if this has been resolved yet). I'd preffer some more mundane developments actually. |
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Oct 30 2006, 09:34 PM
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#31
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
The cheap booze? :D |
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Oct 30 2006, 09:45 PM
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#32
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Iirc: yep, they did. In the aftermath of "Wake Of The Comet" the japanocorps and the japanese army went back to Japan, so the huk had easy game. Guess it's been covered in SoA in more detail. |
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Oct 31 2006, 12:23 AM
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#33
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 170 Joined: 18-September 06 Member No.: 9,412 |
I think the problem with "low level" plotlines is that they are usually city specific (or even neighbourhood specific) so they have a very limited appeal to people not playing in those cities. While big, earth shaking plotlines can effect everyone, everywhere.
I personally loved Renraku:Shutdown and Bug City so something along those lines would be nice. More about the Draco Foundation and what it's long term goals are would be nice (even a whole source book just about them could be cool.) also maybe stuff about the Atlantian Foundation and what they have really discovered so far. In fact, Jackpoint books, along the lines of Runner Havens, about different corps would be cool. Just cover two corps per book in good detail with info and shadowtalk about what they have going on all around the globe, secret projects, take over plans, etc... You wouldn't have to cover all the corps, just the ones that have cool stuff going on with them. Maybe the Draco, Atlantian, Evo, etc... I can make my own adventures, just give me cool stuff going on in the world that I can play with. |
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Oct 31 2006, 12:42 AM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
I absolutely disagree. There are some players who are sufficiently competent and powerful that they can weather even the biggest shakeups and come out ahead. That's not to say that Lofwyr should be utterly immune to the world around him, but there's no reason to beat him up just because he's there. In fact, it'd be nice to have some plot at a level below "one of the big 10 collapses". Not irrelevant street level jank, but, say... what happend to Lucien Cross or Leonard Auralius? |
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Oct 31 2006, 12:45 AM
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#35
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Didn't Lucien bite the big one in a plane crash right at the time of the Crash 2.0?
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Oct 31 2006, 01:37 AM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
You're right. He did die in the crash. |
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Oct 31 2006, 01:43 AM
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#37
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
Every now and then, when writing a story (And Shadowrun is, of course, an ongoing story) you should sit back and just ask, "What happens if this character dies? Or this one? Or this?" Sometimes it hurts things, sometimes it helps. Right now, there's probably more stories that can be run with Lofwyr alive than dead. I say probably because, well, I'm biased in this. :) It wouldn't have to *end8 teh company, but it'd knock them out of the top spot in short order. How far would they fall? Who would replace them as the number one? Who would take over the company? What kind of plotlines can be pulled from this? It's at least worth considering, that's for certain. |
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Oct 31 2006, 01:45 AM
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#38
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
It's a bit more complicated than that, and even in SoA I wouldn't call what the Philippines has "independence," or even anything close. Apparently, it's a bit different in Runner Havens. "When the Philippines regained their long-fought freedom, Caracas snatched Manila’s place as the new hot spot for the sex tourism industry" (RH, 126) suggests that this particular plotline has been addressed. |
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Oct 31 2006, 02:50 AM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
Wakshaani: One of the things that makes a complex fictional setting cool is consistency.
Lofwyr has been portrayed for nearly 20 years as completely in control, with plans so detailed and effective that nothing ever really so much as been a significant setback for him, much less thwarted him. In fact, Lofwyr is the only major character in the setting who has been able to project this aura of infallibility. If Lofwyr were to lose that appearance, it would conflict with all of the preceeding writing. It would also make Dragons seem less cool and powerful - which would hurt the setting immensely. Lofwyr is also an important contributor to making other major figures seem cool. He's a superhuman being who can singlehandedly administer the largest financial empire in the world. He's the ultimate example of the "don't deal with dragons" theme. But... how cool does that make Richard Villers? He, a mere human, successfully competed with Lofwyr as a mega corporate administrator for years. If it weren't for Lofwyr, Villers would merely be "the best human business guy". |
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Oct 31 2006, 03:05 AM
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#40
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
So then did Dukie set him up to go head to head with Loffy? Lets not forget Loffy has Wilhelmina Graff-Beloits heir to watch out for do you think Villers could be it?
BTW Loffy has already been shut down once in the right of succsession by Hestaby |
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Oct 31 2006, 03:47 AM
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#41
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
Russia is about to nearly implode and almost go down in flames, leading to another revolution. Those bones they found at the bottom of the mine outside of Ekaterinberg? Some of them were fake, Tsarevich Alexei somehow managed to escape out of the country and get access to his family's offshore funds. And now his great great grand-son is coming back and he is pissed.
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Oct 31 2006, 11:49 AM
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#42
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Thanks for clarification and expanding my post (which I wrote out of memory). :) |
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Oct 31 2006, 05:56 PM
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#43
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 124 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 2,072 |
Well secretly I kind of hate Dragons and their evil machievellian schemes. And their meddling in our affairs acting like they own the world, and there is no one to stop them. (^_^) (Actually I'd rather not see him dead. But sheesh the beastie has too many plots, too many enemies, and too many covert shadow conflicts with too many other big coverts to always come out on top. I give him credit for keeping them all un-unified against him.) |
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Oct 31 2006, 06:06 PM
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#44
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
The dragon slayers are there to stop them, and loffy believes what doesnt kill you makes you stronger. I wonder how many drakes he has besides "Scales" I was reading in the dragons book scales made a lot of trips around and he was even mentioned in threats when they were talking about drakes.
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Oct 31 2006, 06:24 PM
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#45
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 584 Joined: 15-April 06 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 8,466 |
Personally I like dragons and IE's as long as they are fallible and above all beatable. A bunch of unbeatable, perfect beings that just do as they please, and can always expect to get away with it are in my mind not worth my time as a gamemaster to use, either actively or even as background material. The IE's have obviously had to deal with setbacks, and it is about time that Lofwyr has to eat some crow. Killing him is not something I would want to see, but a perfect plotter just does not provide the storyline with any real meat. In other words he is reminiscent of the Antediluvians in the Old World of Darkness. Yes beings of such immense power that nothing the players could possibly do could in any way shape or form affect the final outcome. Invincible characters lead to stories where players can often feel like a sideshow compared to the uberpowerful not nearly as cool as the writers think they are main act. At my table the players are the main show, and for them to feel that way there needs to be at least a hope in hell that they can change their environment (i.e. the world around them) should they direct their energies down that path. As it stands you can either bow down to the all powerful GD's or get ground under foot. Just my two cents.
Things I would like to see GD's and IE's that the players have a chance of foiling More details on the Big Ten Most of all a timeline of recent events even if there are no plans for developing them into full books |
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Oct 31 2006, 06:53 PM
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#46
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Lofwyr just disappearing for a time would be enough to shake the corporate world and europe. No need to kill him, just let him do something or the other in secret, preferable tied to Dunkelzahns Legacy. Meanwhile, the caretaker he leaves in charge is threatened by all sides as he struggles to keep SK intact.
Would take SK down a bit, could let us guessing and discussing for years if handled properly, and when he comes back, he must rebuild his empire. |
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Oct 31 2006, 07:15 PM
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#47
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
Teh Lof *has* lost a step in the past, mind you. His brother KO'd him with a magical thingamajigger a while back, triggering a brief "Oh Frak!" storm in the company proper until Lof woke back up. (IIRC, he was down for 24 hours)
After teh contest to pick a new Loremaster, Lof has also been spending a lot of time exploring his prize and was ... not *ignoring* the company, but lots of "I can't be bothered" moments where, again, things spun without him getting claws constantly in motion. Personally, after two such events, I'd be putting serious thought nito a back-up plan, for what to do if he'snot around, so that teh corp can still float. Of course, once that system's in place, well, you don't really *need* him anymore, now do you? Heck, there's still rumor that Nachtmaster isn't dead but, instead, is penned up in Lofwyr's private cave somewhere, bound by magic and being used for who knows what. Lof took the body and let no one else get near, after all. At this stage, you'd have to figure out the whos, wheres, and hows, since teh whys are already taken care of. Me? I'd suggest a small cadre of younger dragons ... Say a band of five (non-Great) dragons, Eurotrash maybe ... who were raised in the modern world and decided that the Olde Ways no longer apply. One draws the Lof out with a direct challenge, he meets the target, scoffs, then gets gang-rushed by the lot, violating the rules. He fights back, one Great vs five Normal, gets overwhelmed, and brought down while everyone goes "Buh". Bonus points if one is Nachtmaster's son, who binds Lof into the same place that his dad was stored. Lof, of course, can break free later, but you get a year or so of the Young Turks running the show, watching the company stagger under the mismanagement, and speculation about "Is Lof really dead?!" ... Dependning on where you want to go from there, the group would likely implode without the central target still in their sight, splitting over personal hording instincts and jealousy, until, finally, Lof breaks free and raises holy Hell on them once they're devided. Then he takes his company back over, and starts trying to rebuild after dropping two or three places overall... The other dragons will get to turn around and look at the young dragons as well, going, "Hey. What're you guys planning back there?!" .... Ahh, paranoia. It's fun to shake things up. |
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Oct 31 2006, 07:22 PM
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#48
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
When you shake things up all the time, it's occasionally fun and novel to have something that doesn't get radically shaken up. |
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Oct 31 2006, 07:29 PM
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#49
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
So... you think that if the players don't have a reasonable hope of changing something, it shouldn't be in the world writeup? Does that mean they should get to move North America, or change the fact that Magic doesn't work in outer space? Or does it just apply to named characters? Should a PC be able to produce more robots in a year than MCT? I value having a consistent and well-known game world that my players can understand and interact with. By necessity, in a setting like Shadowrun, that includes forces that are powerful economically and politically. Their existence provides the flavor for the game world. Just because Saeder-Krupp is run by a dragon with a name doesn't mean that the players need to be able to thwart him any more than they need to be able to thwart Aztechnology. |
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Oct 31 2006, 09:38 PM
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#50
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Exactly. I was saying in another thread recently that it bothered me how some forces (dragons, Johnsons, etc.) are presented as all-knowing, all-powerful super-beings that never make mistakes, always know what's going on behind the scenes, always have a leg up on the players no matter what. It's ridiculous to me, and not in any way realistic. Does that mean my players are going to be able to just walk up and shoot a GD with a Needler and wipe him out? No. But it does mean that with a good plan, enough forethought, and some ingenuity, my players could beat one and significantly alter the power structure of the game world. Why? Because nobody is perfect. As to
I'm not seeing how you're getting that from his post at all. |
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