 The end is nigh!, How long can your character survive? |
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  Oct 23 2003, 09:39 PM
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#1
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Shooting Target  Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032  |
All of the characters in the Munchkin for XYZ threads have been designed to be specialised against XYZ problem they were designed to. The idea of this test is that people create as good a survivability chance as possible over a number of tests (yet to be determined).
Here goes with the background; you have been playing your character for a fair bit now and your GM has decided that as you have reached 50 karma; your character must die. He's not going to be unreasonable though; he's going to send a variety of increasingly harder fights at you until you die. Your job, as the munchkin who refuses to retire the character, is to live for as long as possible. Characters should be 50 karma characters created with any of the standard chargen systems (Priority, 123 pt based, Sum-2-10, or Becks 425 karma). Also add 250k:nuyen: worth of equipment that may have an availability up-to 4+(base ettiquette*2). Perhaps don't post any tests or characters until it's been decided exactly what is happening and who is doing it. The tests may not be doable so characters might just be posted and be nit-picked by the group. You can assume that your character is as paranoid as he justafiably should be after another character in the group was killed by a poisoned hamburger given to him by a memebr of the ninja clan he betrayed. Pesky Ninjas. |
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Oct 23 2003, 09:46 PM
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#2
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
I'm game, when do we start and when will you post the first test?
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Oct 23 2003, 10:16 PM
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#3
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
If we do do tests then I think I'll make some up in advance and apply them to all of the characters that have been posted.
Actually; I think the best way to do it would be that everyone taking part sends two tests to me (using the message system on these forums). After some deadline, people can start posting characters and tests will stop being accepted. After all of the characters are up (another deadline) I'll post all of the tests and we can have a chuckle about how many of the tests you could each reasonably survive. Obviously you're best to make your own tests ones that you could survive but you doubt other people would. If you make a test you can't survive then it may go against you as it is decided that some other character survives it thus goes one point up on you. If anyone is alive by the end of it (ignoring any tests that everyone fails, the GM is too-much of a pussy to give them out) then the other characters in the group have reached 50 karma and your GM has been pursuaded to run a higher-powered-campaign... Until you reach 100 karma! :grinbig: |
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Oct 24 2003, 09:47 AM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Kirkland, WA, USA Member No.: 1,816 |
Wow... there are GMs out there who will simply kill off a party who's gotten too powerful? That shows a profound lack of imagination and storytelling capability...
Don't mind me, I'm on a rant tonight... |
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Oct 24 2003, 10:02 AM
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#5
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Actually SG, the players are usually the ones that retire if I read these people right, because of a lack of desire to go further in advancement. Apparently they run out of things to spend XP on by 50 karma...
I can see this happening if you stick to 2 rules that alot of people use... time to learn/advance a skill and a rule on slowing attribute advancement. Personally, I think the "optional rule" for skill advancement via training in a skill is ... dumb. Training is what people who don't have karma to spend do. :P Experience is the key to training in those that earn karma, so my only rule is that you have to use skills to advance them. Another problem is that it's so expensive to raise skills past attribute levels that people just don't want to (and don't want to start raising out-of-theme skills either, which I agree with). The problem there is that 1) GM's limit Attribute advancement. So of course you don't advance the attribute, and of course you also don't advance skills past the attribute, just too damn expensive. 2) GM's have this wrong attitude that you shouldn't min-max at char gen. My friend's Quickness-12 via Exceptional Attribute/Elf and 4 levels of MuscleToner+SuperThyroid Gland would get kicked out of alot of GM's games for being "munchkin". So, in the end, it's not that the GM's kill off the players, it's that the GMs remove the "fun factor" of advancing past 50 karma. And most likely, that has as much to do with their inability to use imagination and a lack of storytelling capability as if they'd just killed the players off at 50 karma. Sphynx |
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Oct 24 2003, 10:06 AM
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#6
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Target Group: Members Posts: 71 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Kirkland, WA, USA Member No.: 1,816 |
True enough... though I daresay, our campaign has reached about 240 karma, and we're getting ready to explore space... (We *like* epic level stuff.) We have a fine crop of revolving player/GM's, though... who have all been gaming together for a long time.
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Oct 24 2003, 10:20 AM
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#7
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
The 50 karma think was a joke based on other threads. I just wanted an arbitrary amount of karma that would let you do the most important things for your character (some initiation+an ally spirit maybe?) but not make you uberpowerful.
Anyway; Is anyone else interested? It's a bit like an Iron-Munchkin competition pith no prize other than gloating rights (what more do you need?). |
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Oct 24 2003, 10:36 AM
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#8
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
I'll make one. :P
But AFK til Monday, so I'll have to wait til Monday to post it. Gotta head to Belgium for the weekend. He'll, of course, be a Dwarven Shaman with 3 karma for Group, 9 karma to join, Quickening, 36 karma to quicken and 2 karma for karma pool. (that should help people try and kill me :P) Might look an AWFUL lot like my current PC in a 50 Karma form. ;) But I won't make recommendations for attack-types. You do that and you end up with the most unlikely combinations, you should just come up with 5 of your own before we start making characters, then test the characters after with those 5. Sphynx |
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Oct 24 2003, 12:59 PM
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#9
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
[OT]I'm actually trying to borrow a system from the tree climbing club from my neighbourhood back when I was about 8 or 9. We each had our own challenge which we had to be able to do and if we could do someone else's challenge (and they couldn't do ours) we went above them on the club ladder-tree-thing. I think mine was to balance, walking along a branch about 4ft up with no handholds. My sister (self-appointed leader, thus top of the ladder of the club) disallowed it because it was too hard (even though I could do it perfectly well myself every time). *Sigh*. [/OT]
Anyway; I would make-up tests but I was contemplating entering also. I could, and I have a few ideas, but it's hard to keep them all original... |
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Oct 24 2003, 01:25 PM
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#10
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
For the Iron-Munchkin thing... by understanding the most absurd things possible in the game, you have a better understanding and appreciation for the more normal things. I considered playing a bullet-proof troll in a real game for about two minutes before realizing exactly how boring a character with next to no potential for social interaction would be (who's going to let a troll, chrome from head to toe, into their building, exactly?). However, by looking at what it takes to withstand a shot at xyz damage, it lets you better understand what a merc character would be mechanically built around, for instance. It doesn't help you make more interesting characters, but it helps you keep your characters around a bit longer (which is interesting, in and of itself). |
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Oct 24 2003, 04:30 PM
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#11
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Traumatizing players since 1992 Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,282 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Las Vegas, NV Member No.: 220 |
Now will anything that's legal technically in the book like Polaris' decrease attribute/increase attribute munching be legal? or will there be some vote or consensus limiting phenominally questionable character creation things like that?
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Oct 24 2003, 04:34 PM
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#12
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
How much fun your character is to play has absolutely nothing to do with his stats Tinker. It all depends on the player. |
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Oct 24 2003, 05:45 PM
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#13
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
I think I know what you're getting at and I partially agree, but what you specifically say is not true. Having a character whose mechanics closely model his/her persona and concept is important to the fun, and by understanding what's possible, it helps you better understand how to get what you want for a concept which falls well short of the theoretical limits. Saying that the mechanics are irrelevant is just flat out wrong. To a certain extent, having a survivable character is a critical part of the SR game. I don't mean "must take every advantage to survive, no matter what the cost", but rather a character who has some basic idea of how to handle themselves in a rough situation. If you want to really focus on other things, fine, you just need to be ultra-efficient about how you get that base level of survivability. Playing the newbie-runner can be fun, but they tend not to last too long on the streets (particularly when you go on actual shadowruns, though gritty street-level games can also be fun and generally require less surviveability). |
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Oct 24 2003, 05:57 PM
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#14
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
I agree totally,
What I meant was that the ultra bad cz Troll can have a fun and exciting personality if you give it to him. He may have a cha of 1, but that doesn't mean he can't goof off and act like a clown. It just depends on the personality (which as far as I know has no stat :) ) you choose to give him and/or her, soka? |
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Oct 24 2003, 06:00 PM
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#15
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,138 Joined: 10-June 03 From: Tennessee Member No.: 4,706 |
Yep. The reason I mentioned not playing one is that, quite simply, the social disadvantages are huge. Who is going to rent an appartment to that troll? Or ride on the same bus with him? Or let him in the bar?
Actually, a better question is who is going to stop him from doing any of those things (answer: LS when the panicing people call them) :cyber: |
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Oct 24 2003, 06:50 PM
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#16
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Why oh why didn't I take the blue pill. Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,545 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Gloomy Boise Idaho Member No.: 2,006 |
Ok I have a character ready, do you want him emailed to you or posted here on the forum?
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Oct 25 2003, 10:23 AM
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#17
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Can someone provide me for a link to that? That may be some of polaris's antics that I missed. If it's what I think you mean (decreacing a stat from 6 to 5 or so, casting a spell with a lower TN to raise it, then dropping the decreace spell) then your GM rules that once the decreace spell is dropped the rolls should be re-applied against the higher TN (IE: 6) so there would be no net gain. If he's doing it without the 'dropping the decreace bit' then it's fine. |
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Oct 25 2003, 10:42 AM
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#18
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
OK; I'll MM (Munchkin-Master) this, but only if I get enough (5+) people taking part. Message me (top of page, my controls, compose new message) with characters, the deadline is probably going to be late next week (depends how long people want to spend with a calculator).
If I could emphasise again the importance of paranoia and that your character's general plans for dealing with 'stuff' should be included. Your GM won't allow you to go back and say 'actually; I always wear a chastity-belt' or whatever. |
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Oct 25 2003, 10:48 AM
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#19
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
The problem is that he's not re-applying the rolls to the higher TN once the decrease is dropped. For example, he drops bis Willpower from 6 to 3, then casts the Increase Willpower spell against the TN of 3, after which he drops the Decrease spell and keeps all of the successes that he got from the lower TN. |
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Oct 25 2003, 11:31 AM
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#20
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
I agree that, by the letter of the rules, it is possible. In-fact it was something even I considered at one point (Conjuring with 14 charisma... Eww! Eww!) but it was something I decided not to even mention to my GM at the time. The GM may house-rule this though. Do you think he should? Also: Tie-breaks are decided based-on coolness factor. |
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Oct 26 2003, 09:28 PM
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#21
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
Well, here's my PC :P
Biggest 'uh oh' in the above is the Quickenings, primarily the "Glowing Armour". But, this character is currently (not previously) a member of the HTRT for LoneStar, and has permits for each of the spells. He doesn't mind that he Glows, YOU should mind it though. :P Great thing about it is that, with the worn jacket, he has the equivalent of 13/11 Hardened Military Grade Armour (Gel packs are the BOMB when stacked with the Armour Spell). Not to mention that a bit of reading under Limited Armour Spell shows that Armour spells reduce the Power to Fire, Cold, Etc, not just Ballistic/Impact. Of course, stack that with his 18 Combat Pool for Dodging (natural of 8D6 +6 for Combat Sense, +6 for Deflect, -2 Gel-Jacket), even assuming someone munchkin'd the "ignore armour called shot" rule. The TN of the shooter raised enough to make it that he'd need to roll about 20 dice to succeed in a hit. Respirator is nice for Gas attacks, and you can't poison someone via food who never eats/drinks because he casts Nutrition and Fast as often as needed. But let's say you got pass the Oxygen Mask, the Fast/Nutrition, etc, etc, the Detox and Antidote make it alot easier than a mundane has to overcome the poison, and with the Oxygenate spell, good luck drowning him. Oh, some strange FAB that wants to drain the magic? Sterilize the area. BTW, he's still gotten 8 Expendable Health Foci to use after all the Quickening with the following averages being the likely outcome Magic Fingers: 4 successes via 2 Force 6 Exp Spell Foci, 1 reroll for 3 more successes: 7 successes (6 Str/6 Qui makes for nice fingers) Levitate: 12 successes via 2 Force 6 Exp Spell Foci, no reroll. Armour: 4 successes via 2 Force 6 Exp Spell Foci, no reroll. Combat Sense: 12 successes via 2 Force 6 Exp Spell Foci, no reroll (+6 dice) Deflect: 12 successes via 2 Force 6 Exp Spell Foci, no reroll (+6 dice) Increased Reflexes: 6 successes via 1 Force 6 Exp Spell Foci (other Exp Spell Foci used to resist 5D drain) Of course for any/all of those a character could/might have spent the whole 3 karma pool each instead of just 1 karma pool total among all of them. But that seemed un-necessary for a 6 karma spell that will probably be dispelled soon (though not easily) anyhows. :P Alot was left un-done because it's just not needed for the survival part of the character (knowledges, contacts, extra cash spent). Sphynx |
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Oct 26 2003, 11:50 PM
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#22
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
Could I advise you to re-think that bit about knowledge skills and contacts not being relevant for your character's survival? Also if there are any other items that are relevant to your character's survival (for example: a gun?) I'd advise you to include them.
A quick run-down on your character's daily routine would be useful too Sphynx. |
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Oct 27 2003, 03:47 PM
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#23
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,965 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Edinburgh, Scotland Member No.: 2,032 |
@Sphynx I'm gonna have to pull you up on one point there; gel-packed armour cannot be layered with other armour. (P53, CC)
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Oct 27 2003, 03:57 PM
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#24
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,222 Joined: 11-October 02 From: Netherlands and Belgium Member No.: 3,437 |
True there, making it 11/10 instead of 13/10. ForearmGuards are treated like Helmets so don't count towards layering, though you could House Rule otherwise getting it down to a 11/9. Only reason I wanted to take the FormFitting was the thermal dampeners anyhows. :P You can still wear other armours, they just don't count towards your B/I rating.
Sphynx |
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