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> SURGE, Lets get this arguement out of the Way
Are you pro or anti Surge?
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Total Votes: 63
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ChicagosFinest
post Oct 31 2006, 04:07 PM
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I thought I would bring this up because I'm Currious and trying to contribute proactively and intellegently to these awesome forums. With that said (and I'll pobably get a lot of shit for this) I'm Pro Surge... Why? Diversity, the more story agles I can work with and the more funky looking villians I can come up with the better.

For instance in my Heyday of playing SR3 when surge hit my team was playing in chicago and we had to go to lincoln park zoo. Guess what we found? SURGE! it was really like going to the zoo. Granted this was a halloween run so it was also humorous.

But other tha that it allows people to do crazy things with their characters like give them tails and not cybernetically. The biggest gripe I will express is that players often look for the advantages of Surge and because their arent any besides cosmetically people tend to knock it.

Finally in my rant, Surge does need to be fleshed out. I like it, I want to hear more of the advantages / disadvantages of being a surgeling for players (BP edges and flaws?). The more options players and GM's have of playing outside the sandbox more power to them. Weak arguement I know but add some fuel on the fire and lets see where this takes us
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Thorn Black
post Oct 31 2006, 04:09 PM
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That's not a yes or no question.
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Moon-Hawk
post Oct 31 2006, 04:14 PM
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I am pro SURGE, because the way it was presented, it's a small enough population that if you'd rather not deal with it, fine, don't deal with it and there's no reason it has to come up in your campaign. If you do want to deal with it, it's a subculture that has clubs and other gatherings, so you can hang out with all sorts of weirdos. If your campaign style is such that someone wants to play a catgirl, then fine, the rules are there. If not, then don't let anyone play one and they're rare enough that they need not be dealt with.

Basically, I like it because it's easy to take it or leave it, as you prefer.
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Steak and Spirit...
post Oct 31 2006, 04:15 PM
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Guessing that you meant 'No' to signify 'Anti-Surge' and 'Yes' to signify 'Pro-Surge' (As opposed to you polling us on whether or not we actually had an opinion on Surge to begin with) I voted 'No - I am not in favor of Surge being expanded upon, nor the concept in general'.

Ugh. Surge. Yech...

...Truly one of the very few parts of Shadowrun I try to pretend never really happened.
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Ranneko
post Oct 31 2006, 04:18 PM
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Agreed, what about apathetic?

Since SURGE basically only occured during YotC, and it has been 5 years for most, they are just your average freaks, most of the effects can be duplicated by bio and/or cyber after all.

I only know of one place other than the comet that caused surge effects, and that is a river in India IIRC, which has occasionally caused surge effect with a mana flood down the river. SoA I think. And those were apparently becoming rarer and rarer.

One thing you could do is have a SURGE quality which gave you a certain number of free essence points for bioware taken at chargen (on top of the cost of buying them, for balance purposes)
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Chandon
post Oct 31 2006, 04:21 PM
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I voted "yes", because I am pro or anti-surge.
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knasser
post Oct 31 2006, 04:28 PM
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That's a terrible poll. I guessed that 'no' meant anti-surge so I voted for that. SR3 already risked slipping into an anything goes fantasy game. SR4 has pulled it back beautifully, but I see no reason to throw in a load of furry elves and undo their good work.

My 0.02 :nuyen:
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Wakshaani
post Oct 31 2006, 04:32 PM
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Are you pro or anti surge, yes/no?

Argh!

What a terrible poll question. (Sorry m'man, but terrible, terrible wording.)

I'm going to assume you meant "Do you like SURGE" Yes/No and vote accordingly.

Scads of reasons why, but, I can sum it up in a word:



Catgirls.


It was an event, an experiment like introducing the Horrors, but, one that wasn't well received and can now be swept under the rug and forgotten.

So, stick me firmly in the Anti-Surge crowd.
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BishopMcQ
post Oct 31 2006, 04:33 PM
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I support SURGE but also remember to keep the human element. Too often I think, players look at the stats and changes while forgetting what that can do to a person's psyche.

Imagine going to bed with a terrible back ache and finding the next morning that your spine is realigning itself to start shoving a bony growth out through your lower back. Then have the hair on your body, start thickening and growing in, so suddenly you don't recognize yourself. Lastly, you look into the mirror and don't even see your own eyes looking back at you, instead your pupils have stretched into slits rather than points and gold flecks have become more dominant than even people with hazel eyes can account for.

Do you have surgery to correct the growth? Change your grooming rituals to include full-body Nair? How about wearing contacts to cover your new, inhuman eyes?

Or do you accept the fact that you are now a freak, outcast by society with a whole new Night of Rage just for you...

So yeah, SURGE can create a new level of depth for characters, but players have to examine the changes and question how the runner is going to adjust.
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eidolon
post Oct 31 2006, 04:52 PM
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Corrected poll options.
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lorechaser
post Oct 31 2006, 05:10 PM
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If SURGE is played up as the freaky of the freaks, then yes. If it's just "Hey, lookit! I can be cooler than you!" then no.

If SURGE happens in our game, my ork will become the biggest racist around. Basically, "HEY! I earned my acceptance, and I'm finally one of the in crowd. Now I shall mock you!" Not a great personality trait, but one that seems interesting....
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Glayvin34
post Oct 31 2006, 05:10 PM
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My character has a long prehensile SURGE tail, and frequents a SURGE club in Seattle called Dr. Moreau's Island.
Personally, I think SURGE is really cool flavor-wise and gives more homage to mythical beasts, which is certainly part of Shadowrun. Olmec culture was full of those freaky half-jaguar images, greek culture had cyclopses, and so on.
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eidolon
post Oct 31 2006, 05:12 PM
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QUOTE (lorechaser)
<snip>
Basically, "HEY! I earned my acceptance, and I'm finally one of the in crowd. Now I shall mock you!" Not a great personality trait, but one that seems interesting....

Interesting and realistic.
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PlatonicPimp
post Oct 31 2006, 05:18 PM
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For all you Anti-Surge players, I have to ask, what are your opinion of variant metatypes? Those "I'm a troll only different" metatypes from the old player's companion? Personally I hated those things. They were limited in scope, somewhat abusive, and made me think "well, if orcs from the middle east have different stats why don't humans?" But surge I loved, because It was simply mix and match freaky traits to make new mythical people. Kinda like open source metatypes. So I retconned the regional variants from the previous book to be "Spike" surgelings: people who expressed surgeling traits well before YOTC.

I have a full set of house rules for surge in 4th edition. If anyone is interested let me know and I'll post them. (maybe I did already, but I don't see them in the complete list of conversions so I'm not sure.) The basic Idea was that surgling was an advantage you purchased that gave you access to "surge traits", other advantages and flaws you could only buy if you were a surgeling.
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PBTHHHHT
post Oct 31 2006, 05:20 PM
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Yes, because it gives Humanis more targets to go after. :silly:
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eidolon
post Oct 31 2006, 05:38 PM
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I'm ambivalent as to SURGE. I think it can be cool, and it can suck spectacularly. It all depends on how the group in question is handling it.

On the optional metatypes though, I pretend that they just don't exist. They're waaaaaay to "cram some (more) D&D into SR to get D&D players to try SR".

Not that I don't want people trying SR, but that's not the way I'd do it.
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ChicagosFinest
post Oct 31 2006, 06:04 PM
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First of all thanks for fixing the post. Im at work and when I was typing it my boss was comming down the way to get in my face about TPS reports (yeah its office space). so my fist poll is a failure in some senses, something to learn from.

Surge is a great way for shadowrun to distance itself from D&D. Yeah you can get cybered up to look cool but people look at cybered individuals just as weird as they to surge. Its all tabo which is why shadowrun is better than D&D in some aspects, there is a consequence to things that are sensationalized or diferant, things to fear and lots of subjects to explore.
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2bit
post Oct 31 2006, 06:08 PM
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No SURGE, no metavariants, and no sasquatches.
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eidolon
post Oct 31 2006, 06:27 PM
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See? As further proof that humans are hypocritical, emotional, and subjective creatures,

I love sasquatches.

For anyone that has Sasquatches in their games, I highly recommend that you find the Sasquatch song by Tenacious D and give it a few hundred listens. It is awesome, as the sasquatch in it is a drummer as well.

:D
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lorechaser
post Oct 31 2006, 06:37 PM
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QUOTE (eidolon)
QUOTE (lorechaser @ Oct 31 2006, 11:10 AM)
<snip>
Basically, "HEY!  I earned my acceptance, and I'm finally one of the in crowd.  Now I shall mock you!"  Not a great personality trait, but one that seems interesting....

Interesting and realistic.

Indeed.

She already doesn't trust orks. They steal.

Surge appeals a little too much to my inner munchkin for me to be too comfortable with it, really.

Now, if you have a system where you spend, say, 5 bp for SURGE and then get 10 positive and 5 negative traits, or the like, I'd be happier with it.

So, post up that conversion!
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eidolon
post Oct 31 2006, 06:44 PM
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Could you clarify what you'd like to see a bit, lorechaser? I'm getting that you'd like to see something like

SURGE - (cost)5bp (would be a "quality" in SR4 right?)
Gives you the ability to apply three positive SURGE traits from <list>. You must also choose one negative SURGE trait from <list>

or something like that.

Am I reading that right? I'm wondering because it's not enough to be a system really, at least as far as what I think when I see "system". I'd think it would just be a quality, in which case you'd just have to have lists of positive and negative traits to choose from.

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Konsaki
post Oct 31 2006, 06:55 PM
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Sorta like this?

Pos Qual - Long Tail - 10BP (15BP)
+1 dice to Athletic tests due to better balance. Character can move it at will. (wagging, bending, flicking) 15BP version is prehensile and can support the character's weight. 1/2 Character's normal physical stats when using it as a third 'hand'

Neg Qual - Third Eye - +10Bp
Character has a third eye in the center of its forehead. Does nothing to improve eyesight, but can close one his normal eyes and still see normally. Opens and closes at will.

Neg Qual - Wierd hair - +5 (+10)
Character has abnormal hair growth over parts of its body, determined by the GM. (+10 version is full body fur/hair growth)

Pos Qual - Claws - 5BP (10BP)
Character's finger nails have hardened and sharpened into claws. Unarmed damage can be physical at (Str/2)+1. 10BP version are retractable claws, like a cat's claws.
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lorechaser
post Oct 31 2006, 07:03 PM
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Yup - I was looking for Pimp's conversions.

I just don't want to see only positive surge, basically.
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Konsaki
post Oct 31 2006, 07:11 PM
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Those wernt a part of his conversion, I just thought those up off the top of my head.
I would suggest making a SURGE limit, whatever it might be, outside of the normal quality limit. So you can have your +/-35BP limit in qualities and your +/-35BP limit in SURGE effects.

Sure you might wind up with a two headed freak of a shadowrunner, but the player will have to deal with the problems of playing that type of character. It all depends on how the GM handles the world.
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Metatron
post Oct 31 2006, 07:13 PM
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pro-surge.

One of my characters gain an interesting range of options...like dual-natured for a street sammie...
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