 More stuff from a n00b GM...., tired of me yet? :P |
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 Nov 5 2006, 07:31 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 9,349  |
So last night we started On the Run. My regular player, Jace, was joined by his erstwhile missing companion, Nikita. Jace has an NPC Hacker Brother, Reese, and I rolled up a Troll Support Mage, Moira, to offset the size of some of the combats they'd face.
I rolled Moira up as an all support NPC styled 400 point character. She's a Bear Shaman with Mentor Spirit, High Pain Tolerance 3, and Focused Concentration 2. Also has Combat Paralysis, Simsense Vertigo, Geas (chanting), Sensitive Neural Structure, and is Incompetent with Computers. I also gave her Conjuring 4 and Sorcery 4. Stats: 6,2,4,5,4,2,2,5,2,6 Spells:Heal, Resist Pain, Increase Reflexes, Inproved Invisibility. Bound Spirits: Earth (4), Air (2), Man (2) Spellcasting Focus: 3 Conjuring Focus: 3 Fetish (all heal spells are limited) To start 'em off, I had them meet Smiley at a local Library - thought that'd be a creative way to do it, It's public, and a bit archaic (paper books?!?!) so not a lot to worry about in the way of prying eyes. They meet Smiley who offers to loan them any necessary gear as part of his premium (10% off the top), introduces them to each other (that's how I got Moira into the team) then gives them the contact to go to Infinity. They go to Infinity, connect with Johnson, he leaves, and they start putting out feelers. Here's where the questions begin. They want to know what the Disc is, or how they'll know they got the right one. Part of the Run is figuring out what the Disc is, so I don't wanna give 'em that info offhand. Thing is, it doesn't say WHAT he tells them as descriptors, except it's an old style optical disc. So I bass it off with the generic statement "He gives you some identifying information". Lame, but I couldn't find anything else. So they start digging, and eventually they turn up the lead for Nabo. So they go to the concert and begin trying to figure out how to get in, etc. Now On The Run mentions Jager, Nabo's novacoke addicted buddy - but never tells you exactly HOW to find out that info on him. Since they don't go out of their way to dig up info on gang members they can exploit to get in (kinda specific, isn't that?) and since Jace only rolls 1 hit on his Knowledge:Seattle Gangs roll, I don't give 'em that info. Eventually, they get Moira to summon an Air spirit to conceal them, then go pick the lock on the back door. She casts and sustains Increase Reflexes on Jace (4 hits) who exploits his twin-silenced Predator IVs on Semi-Auto with 4 IPs to take down the 2 outside guards ASAP. Nikita has the same setup and follows with her 2 IPs and between them, they manage to take out all four backstage guards with Silenced weapons in 3 seconds. I described the air spirit's concealment as a rolling bank of fog, but decided that only they could see it. People not concealed just saw nothing. Sound good? So they go in, hide the bodies, swipe their gear, then use a stun baton on the ork on the catwalk, and go in, stun the peeps in Nabo's dressing room, and eventually find the commlink. They take it with 'em and begin tracing it. Naturally they find the link to Zipper (manual doesn't say how they figure out she's at The Cathode Glow, so I let Reese figure that out, being part of the Hacker Community). Now here's where it gets TRICKY. They approach Zipper and tell her that they have a buyer who wants to pay good money, but wants it ASAP. Eventually they bribe her with 500 Nuyen, and she agrees to tell them where Loomis is. Thing is - the manual says she's to warn Loomis. Except she doesn't think he's at risk now. So I have her notify Loomis that she's passed on info to some extremely interested buyers who'll be coming by soon. So it's about 2AM and they head over to the Coda. They decide to break in the back and search the bar, since it's closed for the nite. So they pick it, and I have it set up with a motion detector that turns the lights on - no wired security network, just an old fashioned motion detector. So they shrug, search the place and find a safe. Right as they're about to start picking it, the Trashers come in the front door and try to mess with 'em. Well, they take the Trasher leader out ASAP, and the rest of 'em (armed only with pool cues) run like heck. They finish picking the safe and find nothing of use in it (some credsticks, that's it). So they decide to stay there the night and wait for Loomis in the morning (having found out from the Trasher leader that he'll bein around 11). So Moira summons an Air spirit to conceal them, and they sleep with either Jace or Nikita on guard through the nite. 11 rolls around, Loomis comes in, and they eventually get the disk from him. They call their Johnson, and he says he'll be by to pick it up and hangs up. About 10 minutes later, the Shangri La team bursts through the door. Except that the Runners are suspicious and so have had the Air spirit conceal them again, and they're sitting at a table in the bar, guns at the ready. Now, I may have messed this up, but I had the shangri-la mage see them in Astral and point the others to them. Is that frosty? The other four (the grunts have automatics skill and no pistol skill, but only carry pistols - so I replaced the pistols with HK227Xs) lay down suppressive fire in that area wh ile the mage casts a Powerball at the area. Moira and Reese hit the dirt, Jace and Nikita start making edge+reflex rolls to avoid damage, and avoid SOME. Jace and Nikita return fire and hurt the Mage bad, and start working on the others too, multiple IPs and all. Moira summons a Spirit of Man after 2 rounds and has it cast Mob Control on the Shangri-La peeps. Not sure if I did it right, but she basically freezes them all at once. (can she recall a bound spirit and have it cast a spell in the same turn? both are simple actions, so I THINK she can) After they're held (do they get a save against that?) Jace and Nikita execute all but the mage and LT. Then decide to have them concealed, call a Road Warrior, and drive to the Body Mall where they hope to sell them for organs. So - the big question is this - how much money do they get for the bodies? There's nothin in SR4 for prices of normal organs. I think I have more questions, but can't remember 'em at the moment. Any comments on how it's going so far? Am I using the Mage too much? |
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Nov 5 2006, 07:44 PM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 315 Joined: 10-June 06 Member No.: 8,691 |
The real question is: Are your players having fun?
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Nov 5 2006, 07:57 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
By using an NPC to augment the PC forces, -and- by using powerful magic, you're walking a pair of fine lines. The first, and most obvious point is that whenever you introduce a NPC that works with the players, you run the risk of overshadowing the PCs accomplishments with the NPC, or at the least, stealing part of their glory. Secondly, magic in and of itself will always run the risk of marginalizing other participants.
Are you using the Mage too much? *Shrug* Maybe. Maybe not. Like the previous poster said, much of that is determined by how much fun your players are having. If you're concerned about that, you could certainly scale back the encounters to a more appropriate power level. As far as Organs/Bodies - A few thousand yen profit, if that, should cut it. Without going into all the logistics of it, the organs themselves are probably worth more than that, but there's overhead, the risk the clinic runs by processing 'corporate assets', etc. Additionally, you set the precedent of turning your players into little body-count-generating-organ-leggers if you really make it worth their while to take that route too often. All of that said: Sounds like you're on track, and I wish your group the best of luck (And fun) completing the adventure. |
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Nov 5 2006, 11:10 PM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 9,349 |
In the next round, the Shangri La mage would have cast Powerball again, and would have likely killed a few of the runners. That's sort of why I figured it was ok to step in.
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Nov 5 2006, 11:42 PM
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#5
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
Remember that occasional PC deaths are acceptable.
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Nov 5 2006, 11:45 PM
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#6
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 7,116 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 1,449 |
On the rules questions - calling and commanding a spirit are both simple actions, but the spirit's spellcasting is a complex action, so the calling and commanding would be one action pass, then the spirit's spellcasting would be on the next action pass. Also, remember that the innate spell ability has to be a spell that the summoner knows. Mob Control is resisted with Willpower plus summoning. Issuing a command is, itself, a simple action.
Don't sweat it too much. Keeping the game flowing is more important than getting every rule exactly right. Consistency is good, though, so let your players know about any oopses, so they don't try the same thing, and then get upset that it suddenly doesn't work for them. As far as the organlegging, it depends on their contacts, and how much street savvy they have in the way of the appropriate knowledge skills. An organlegger, assuming they can even find one, might even try charging them, since he is getting rid of bodies/evidence for them. And some contacts might be repelled at the notion - they may risk their street doc or fixer contact losing some loyalty, or even gaining Notoriety points. If they have the appropriate knowledge and contacts, then like Steak and Spirits said, just a few thousand, if that, to avoid encouraging them. |
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Nov 5 2006, 11:55 PM
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#7
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
As irreverent as their way of presenting it might be, one of the very recent episodes of Fear the Boot (podcast, www.feartheboot.com) talked about a lot of "bad GMing" issues. Not to be taken without some salt in some cases, it still hits on a lot of issues. I bring it up because of the things they talked about were NPCs overshadowing the characters. Not saying you're diong that, MDM, just thought it might be worth a listen for a self-described "new GM". :)
On that note: I give you my views on and ways of handling "harvesting". I despise the idea of a PC group taking everything that isn't nailed down, D&D style, in my SR games. So there are a few things that I do, both meta and in game, to discourage the habit. Note that when I say harvesting, I don't mean that I never let them take anything away with them. It's one thing to pick up a fancy gun on your way out the door, it's another to try and abscond with three bodies so you can hack them up for organs and cyber. Pay them enough that they don't have to. This is generally only appropriate if the reason they are doing the harvesting are "new to SR", or "used to D&D", or "new to gaming", or something like that. That's not to say that seasoned players won't present you with this issue, only that I tend to see it more in "green" players. (And overt munchkins/power gamers...but that's a separate issue. ;)) Generally, paying them enough that they don't feel the need to harvest can help. Not always of course, but it's one option. Another thing to do, is present them with the morality of it. It can happen that your players end up playing the "soulless, heartless mercenary that will do anything for money". Present them with the facts and mores of what they're doing. Sometimes, when reminded, a player will realize that his/her character just "wouldn't do that". I'm not presenting this one just to screw with the players and change their character, but sometimes reminding the players that their characters are people will jog them out of the "get money buy gear get money buy gear" rut that gamers can so easily fall into. Now, moving away from generic, more "meta" methods, I'll say a little about how I handle it if the players actually do haul off the odd body with the idea of selling the skillwires. - Damaged goods: they generally shoot somebody up and then you've got a body lying there full of cyberware...and holes. Cyber can take damage just as the flesh can (there are canon rules for this, but I tend not to get as detailed as they call for, so they take a back seat to description and "realism" in my games). Damaged ware will still draw a price, but it will be much lower than ware in pristine condition. For when a spell is the cause of the corpse, look at whether the spell was mana or physical. A lightning bolt to the chest could easily cause damage to some systems. A mana spell, not as much, and unless you're comfortable making ad hoc calls on this sort of thing, this option may not apply in those cases. - That stuff is hot!: In the case of corpsec-installed ware (you shoot a Renraku guard), that ware probably still "belongs" to that company. It has serial numbers, maybe even tracking devices or shutdown circuits, alll of which make that ware less desirable than "clean" ware. Something to consider, anyway. - It's a body.: Not everyone is happy about having to buy a corpse to get some used ware. Maybe the doc they take it to offers a much reduced rate due to having to do so much work to get it out. Maybe he gives them a reduced rate because after hacking it out, he still has to pay someone to help him get rid of the body? (Or maybe he tells them this to lowball them, and he's really getting paid twice, once by selling the ware and once by selling the body to Tamanous?) - It is used, after all.: In almost any "goods" transaction, used = lower value. Reduce the prices/values before you even have the NPC start haggling. It's not screwing with them, it's realistic. All of this applies equally to bioware and organs, btw. (Actually, the mana spell would have more effect on this stuff that physical damage would in my games.) All of these are ways that I have kept "harvesting" from becoming the main money maker for PCs in my games. To me, there's just so much more to get from SR than "kill, loot, kill, loot, kill, loot". |
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Nov 6 2006, 12:06 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 9,349 |
So if the summoner doesn't know the spell, she can't command the spirit to cast it?
Oops. :P |
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Nov 6 2006, 12:59 AM
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#9
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Target Group: Members Posts: 49 Joined: 27-February 03 Member No.: 4,171 |
Looking at that list of Positive (55 points) and Negative (50 points) Qualities I wouldn't be surprised if the shaman continued to be super (a.k.a. 'too' :) ) useful -- there's supposed to be a 35 point cap for each category, right? -20 Focused Concentration 2 -15 High Pain Tolerance 3 -15 Magician -05 Mentor Spirit +20 Combat Paralysis +10 Geas (Incantation) +05 Incompetent (Computers) +05 Sensitive Neural Structure +10 Simsense Vertigo Holding that aside, a word of warning about the final combat in the module. The meeting in the graveyard with the Risa team + the Shangri La team is a total meat grinder. Your posts up to this point suggest your players like to handle situations with a hard-and-direct approach. That's all to the good, but if you don't MacGuffin that combat to some extent you should expect some if not all of the PCs to be killed. |
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Nov 6 2006, 01:10 AM
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#10
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
You're also aware that each of these are supposed to be limited to a Single category of Spells and/or Spirits, aren't you? |
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Nov 6 2006, 01:47 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 9,349 |
Crap. Somehow I missed the whole 35 point limit. Thanks for pointing that out.
And yes, the Spellcasting Focus is limited to Heal Spells. Is the Summoning Focus supposed to be limited to a single type of spirit? |
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Nov 6 2006, 01:48 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 9,349 |
Yeah, that combat is wierd to me anyhow. The mod seems written so that it's totally random whether or not the Vamps shoot at the players or not. If they see the Shangri La drones they attack the players??? I'm definitely gonna amend that. |
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Nov 6 2006, 01:54 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
MDM,
You might want to keep track of the number of people that Jace and company kill, and who they are. If they killed a bunch of gangers, the gang will try and hunt them down. The Shangri-la team kill will probably not be retaliated, as it would probably just cost them more nuyen. More for cause and effect reasons than morality reasons. As for the Shangri-la mage, or other such mages, you might want to have them kill the spirit in the futur, rather than cast an area spell, as it will allow the rest of the mage's team to see their enemies. And is there any reason why the shangri-la mage didn't have any bound spirits, or even an unbound spirit on hand? Even if only to neutralize Moira's spells. But as others have said, if everyone is having fun, no real reason to change. |
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Nov 6 2006, 01:56 AM
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#14
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Spellcasting foci is about broad catagories of spells
Not sure if you ment Health spells, or just the heal spell |
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Nov 6 2006, 02:00 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 9,349 |
Yeah, health spells.
Main reason I didn't have the Shangri La mage have any spirits is that the module didn't give her any. :P |
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Nov 6 2006, 02:02 AM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 9,349 |
So far, Jace has killed 3 rent-a-cops (not lonestar), and then 3 ShangRi La grunts, and 2 Trashers. Then there's the 2 ShangRiLa bodies they've taken to the Body Mall. Of those, Shang Ri La could prolly chase 'em back, as the Johnson sent them after them - and enough Trashers left that they could try to come back en masse after Jace and Company......tho they DID tellt hem to back down and leave before they started shooting. |
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Nov 6 2006, 02:05 AM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
Hmm, when you said that they took out the 4 guards at the concert, I was assuming that you meant kill, not something like gel rounds.
Am I mistaken? Those were the gangers that I was talking about, as their rockstar buddy might well be inclined to help finance the revenge taking. |
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Nov 6 2006, 02:15 AM
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#18
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Yep, Summoning Foci are Spirit-type specific. |
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Nov 6 2006, 02:16 AM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 9,349 |
Oh yeah, forgot those. *blush* Thing is, they were concealed by an Air Spirit - who's gonna know? |
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Nov 6 2006, 02:56 AM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 72 Joined: 12-September 04 Member No.: 6,654 |
Well, someone killed them. That might be enough to start an investigation.
Did your players do anything about the astral signature of the spirit using it's concealment power? If not, all it may take is one "occult investigator" to read the signature. It really depends if you want to specifically discourage collateral damage during runs, and what you want to hassle your runners about. An investigation over deaths in one run could act as a basis for future runs. It's really all up to you. |
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Nov 6 2006, 07:42 PM
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#21
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
Even more so given that you can burn an edge point (permanent) to turn a death in to a near miss. |
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Nov 7 2006, 01:03 AM
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#22
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Target Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 7-November 06 Member No.: 9,780 |
Nothing wrong with scavenging. Cyberpunk was all about the meat trade. Also, someone who starts obliterating guards with ruthless efficiency really shouldnt care too much about harvesting. I mean, come on. This was a data aquisition, correct? Thats a large body count for "moral" runners. In my book, anyone who will take a life for money has little morals anyway. Of course, considering that 79% of Seattle is scum... :cyber: |
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Nov 7 2006, 01:08 AM
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#23
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I disagree with this intensely. Just because a person's ethical outlook may differ from yours does not mean that they possess little-to no morals at all.
Care to expand on that other 21%? |
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Nov 7 2006, 01:17 AM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 281 Joined: 9-September 06 Member No.: 9,346 |
Yes it does. They're entirely morally bankrupt.
The other 21% are either too young to be morally bankrupt, or too old to matter. |
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Nov 7 2006, 01:20 AM
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#25
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Target Group: Members Posts: 11 Joined: 7-November 06 Member No.: 9,780 |
Ditto. And hey, I never said I had morals, so saying that considering anyone with "less" standards than myself is immoral isnt accurate. :cyber: |
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