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> Counterspelling vs existing spells, Opinions and interpretations
GWCarver
post Nov 7 2006, 04:59 PM
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QUOTE
A magician can use Counterspelling to defend herself and others against a spell being cast. p175


If mage A casts mask and then walks into an office where mage B is, mage B can't resist with counterspelling because the spell has already been cast? (He could dispell it, but that is different).
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Smed
post Nov 7 2006, 05:42 PM
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Interesting question. The text on page 175-176 does state that the Spell defense use of Counterspelling only works as the spell is cast. If the mage wants to protect against a spell that has already been cast and is being sustained, he has to Dispel it, which he can only do if he perceives the spell.

If this is what the authors intended, sustained illusions like Mask and Invisibility are awfully powerful.

If I were GMing I' probably rule that a character would get the benefit of counterspelling if they ran into someone under a Spell like mask, but it isn't written that way in the book.



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Demerzel
post Nov 7 2006, 05:55 PM
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Also cases of sustained area of effect spells.

Which begs the question:

If you walk into an orgy, do you get the extra resistance dice for counterspelling?
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GWCarver
post Nov 7 2006, 05:56 PM
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I agree. Bot a follow up question begs to be asked. How much effort is counterspelling. Could a character say at the begining of a run, "I am always counterspelling for our group" and be counterspelling even when surprised? If a person has no reason to suspect that someone is being masked would they still get counterspelling?

QUOTE

If you walk into an orgy, do you get the extra resistance dice for counterspelling?


Or if Orgy is cast on someone else and you don't counter it but it is then moved onto you, Can you counter it then or are you just happy you didn't?
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Demerzel
post Nov 7 2006, 06:05 PM
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Well, there's some definate wierdness with conterspelling and surprise.

There's a place that says a magician always gets to use counterspelling on himself unless surprised.

And there's a place that says a person can counterspell a spell they didn't even know was trying to affect them without realizing it, as in the case of a detection spell.

Which begs the question of how is it different to not know that a detection spell is about to hit you and not knowing that a manaball is about to hit you, in once case you get counterspelling in one case you don't... Strange.
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lorechaser
post Nov 7 2006, 06:10 PM
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QUOTE (GWCarver)
I agree. Bot a follow up question begs to be asked. How much effort is counterspelling. Could a character say at the begining of a run, "I am always counterspelling for our group" and be counterspelling even when surprised? If a person has no reason to suspect that someone is being masked would they still get counterspelling?

In group, we tend to assume that it's not up until you declare it is, then it's up until the end of that particular dramatic sequence.

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X-Kalibur
post Nov 7 2006, 06:30 PM
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QUOTE (Smed)
Interesting question. The text on page 175-176 does state that the Spell defense use of Counterspelling only works as the spell is cast. If the mage wants to protect against a spell that has already been cast and is being sustained, he has to Dispel it, which he can only do if he perceives the spell.

If this is what the authors intended, sustained illusions like Mask and Invisibility are awfully powerful.

If I were GMing I' probably rule that a character would get the benefit of counterspelling if they ran into someone under a Spell like mask, but it isn't written that way in the book.

That hardly makes them overpowered unless you cast them at stupidly high force levels. You're rolling 1 stat vs the spellcasting hits on the spell capped at force. Unlike damage spells which are F + hits.
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DarkNataku
post Nov 7 2006, 07:26 PM
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QUOTE (Demerzel)
Which begs the question of how is it different to not know that a detection spell is about to hit you and not knowing that a manaball is about to hit you, in once case you get counterspelling in one case you don't... Strange.

Personally, I take it to mean that if you're aware of the caster, then you can counterspell even if you're not aware a spell is being cast. If you have no idea the caster is there at all, well then you're boned.
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Demerzel
post Nov 7 2006, 11:32 PM
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DarkNataku,

Well, the section that describes the counterspelling vs. spells you don't know as being cast as an actively jamming the mana in the area...

But your interpretation means that the only way I can counterspell against a detect life spell is to see the mage first? That's a tad silly don't you think?
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laughingowl
post Nov 8 2006, 12:30 AM
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TO me it has always been.

You do not need to be aware. You will sub-conciously ;fluxated the mana around you making the spells harder to land.

However if STARTLED (surprised) then in the moment of distraction you are too distracted to do anything.

You do not need to be aware of the spell to counterspell it.

However, if you are in the throws of a 'real orgasm'™ don't expect to be using your counterspelling dice to resist. (to distracted/surprised/startled/shocked/stunned/what ever you want to call it).
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PlatonicPimp
post Nov 8 2006, 12:34 AM
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Also, Detection spells are a special case because they "raise the hackles" so to speak. They are typically cast from somewhere afar and then used to observe the target. You ever get that feeling that tells you someone is looking at you? Thats what being targeted by a detection spell feels like, and that's why you can use counterspelling against it. Because on some level, you ARE aware that you are being targeted.

My 2 :nuyen:
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Garrowolf
post Nov 8 2006, 05:57 AM
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I tend to say that you can always use counterspelling on yourself. You have to declare counterspelling on others but you have to keep them in your line of sight to do so. Surprise only has an effect on if you have already put the counterspelling on or not.

Also I only apply counterspelling dice to instances where you are the subject of a spell. I wouldn't necessarily work on Improved invisiblity because the object becoming invisible is the subject and you are just resisting the effect of the invisiblity not the spell.
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Demerzel
post Nov 8 2006, 03:48 PM
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QUOTE (Garrowolf)
Also I only apply counterspelling dice to instances where you are the subject of a spell. I wouldn't necessarily work on Improved invisiblity because the object becoming invisible is the subject and you are just resisting the effect of the invisiblity not the spell.

Well, the thing about that is it contradicts the description of the way it is supposed to work. What's the difference between a mana based and a physical invisibility spell? Manabased goes around taking you out of the minds of the people who look at you, and that is why it does not work against non living sensors...

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Ryu
post Nov 8 2006, 04:16 PM
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Please leave the invisibility angle alone... nothing to see.

The needed rule is on pg. 174, step 7 (ongoing effects). If you walk into the area of effect, you get to resist the spell "as appropiate". No difference to a first-hand target.
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Draconis
post Nov 8 2006, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (Demerzel)
Also cases of sustained area of effect spells.

Which begs the question:

If you walk into an orgy, do you get the extra resistance dice for counterspelling?

If you did, why would you want to use them? :D
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Garrowolf
post Nov 9 2006, 04:41 AM
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QUOTE (Demerzel)
QUOTE (Garrowolf @ Nov 7 2006, 09:57 PM)
Also I only apply counterspelling dice to instances where you are the subject of a spell. I wouldn't necessarily work on Improved invisiblity because the object becoming invisible is the subject and you are just resisting the effect of the invisiblity not the spell.

Well, the thing about that is it contradicts the description of the way it is supposed to work. What's the difference between a mana based and a physical invisibility spell? Manabased goes around taking you out of the minds of the people who look at you, and that is why it does not work against non living sensors...

Yes but physical invisibility doesn't effect the sensors - it effects the target.
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Demerzel
post Nov 9 2006, 04:44 AM
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Bah, nevermind...
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