IPB

Welcome Guest ( Log In | Register )

 
Reply to this topicStart new topic
> Counterspelling vs existing spells, Opinions and interpretations
GWCarver
post Nov 7 2006, 04:59 PM
Post #1


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 6-October 06
From: Chicago
Member No.: 9,557



QUOTE
A magician can use Counterspelling to defend herself and others against a spell being cast. p175


If mage A casts mask and then walks into an office where mage B is, mage B can't resist with counterspelling because the spell has already been cast? (He could dispell it, but that is different).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Smed
post Nov 7 2006, 05:42 PM
Post #2


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 248
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Note Calonna
Member No.: 241



Interesting question. The text on page 175-176 does state that the Spell defense use of Counterspelling only works as the spell is cast. If the mage wants to protect against a spell that has already been cast and is being sustained, he has to Dispel it, which he can only do if he perceives the spell.

If this is what the authors intended, sustained illusions like Mask and Invisibility are awfully powerful.

If I were GMing I' probably rule that a character would get the benefit of counterspelling if they ran into someone under a Spell like mask, but it isn't written that way in the book.



Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Demerzel
post Nov 7 2006, 05:55 PM
Post #3


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,206
Joined: 9-July 06
From: Fresno, CA
Member No.: 8,856



Also cases of sustained area of effect spells.

Which begs the question:

If you walk into an orgy, do you get the extra resistance dice for counterspelling?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
GWCarver
post Nov 7 2006, 05:56 PM
Post #4


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 39
Joined: 6-October 06
From: Chicago
Member No.: 9,557



I agree. Bot a follow up question begs to be asked. How much effort is counterspelling. Could a character say at the begining of a run, "I am always counterspelling for our group" and be counterspelling even when surprised? If a person has no reason to suspect that someone is being masked would they still get counterspelling?

QUOTE

If you walk into an orgy, do you get the extra resistance dice for counterspelling?


Or if Orgy is cast on someone else and you don't counter it but it is then moved onto you, Can you counter it then or are you just happy you didn't?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Demerzel
post Nov 7 2006, 06:05 PM
Post #5


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,206
Joined: 9-July 06
From: Fresno, CA
Member No.: 8,856



Well, there's some definate wierdness with conterspelling and surprise.

There's a place that says a magician always gets to use counterspelling on himself unless surprised.

And there's a place that says a person can counterspell a spell they didn't even know was trying to affect them without realizing it, as in the case of a detection spell.

Which begs the question of how is it different to not know that a detection spell is about to hit you and not knowing that a manaball is about to hit you, in once case you get counterspelling in one case you don't... Strange.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
lorechaser
post Nov 7 2006, 06:10 PM
Post #6


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,333
Joined: 19-August 06
From: Austin
Member No.: 9,168



QUOTE (GWCarver)
I agree. Bot a follow up question begs to be asked. How much effort is counterspelling. Could a character say at the begining of a run, "I am always counterspelling for our group" and be counterspelling even when surprised? If a person has no reason to suspect that someone is being masked would they still get counterspelling?

In group, we tend to assume that it's not up until you declare it is, then it's up until the end of that particular dramatic sequence.

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
X-Kalibur
post Nov 7 2006, 06:30 PM
Post #7


Runner
******

Group: Members
Posts: 2,579
Joined: 30-May 06
From: SoCal
Member No.: 8,626



QUOTE (Smed)
Interesting question. The text on page 175-176 does state that the Spell defense use of Counterspelling only works as the spell is cast. If the mage wants to protect against a spell that has already been cast and is being sustained, he has to Dispel it, which he can only do if he perceives the spell.

If this is what the authors intended, sustained illusions like Mask and Invisibility are awfully powerful.

If I were GMing I' probably rule that a character would get the benefit of counterspelling if they ran into someone under a Spell like mask, but it isn't written that way in the book.

That hardly makes them overpowered unless you cast them at stupidly high force levels. You're rolling 1 stat vs the spellcasting hits on the spell capped at force. Unlike damage spells which are F + hits.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
DarkNataku
post Nov 7 2006, 07:26 PM
Post #8


Target
*

Group: Members
Posts: 13
Joined: 18-September 06
Member No.: 9,414



QUOTE (Demerzel)
Which begs the question of how is it different to not know that a detection spell is about to hit you and not knowing that a manaball is about to hit you, in once case you get counterspelling in one case you don't... Strange.

Personally, I take it to mean that if you're aware of the caster, then you can counterspell even if you're not aware a spell is being cast. If you have no idea the caster is there at all, well then you're boned.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Demerzel
post Nov 7 2006, 11:32 PM
Post #9


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,206
Joined: 9-July 06
From: Fresno, CA
Member No.: 8,856



DarkNataku,

Well, the section that describes the counterspelling vs. spells you don't know as being cast as an actively jamming the mana in the area...

But your interpretation means that the only way I can counterspell against a detect life spell is to see the mage first? That's a tad silly don't you think?
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
laughingowl
post Nov 8 2006, 12:30 AM
Post #10


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 615
Joined: 26-February 02
Member No.: 1,895



TO me it has always been.

You do not need to be aware. You will sub-conciously ;fluxated the mana around you making the spells harder to land.

However if STARTLED (surprised) then in the moment of distraction you are too distracted to do anything.

You do not need to be aware of the spell to counterspell it.

However, if you are in the throws of a 'real orgasm'™ don't expect to be using your counterspelling dice to resist. (to distracted/surprised/startled/shocked/stunned/what ever you want to call it).
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
PlatonicPimp
post Nov 8 2006, 12:34 AM
Post #11


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,219
Joined: 26-February 02
From: Lofwyr's stomach.
Member No.: 1,320



Also, Detection spells are a special case because they "raise the hackles" so to speak. They are typically cast from somewhere afar and then used to observe the target. You ever get that feeling that tells you someone is looking at you? Thats what being targeted by a detection spell feels like, and that's why you can use counterspelling against it. Because on some level, you ARE aware that you are being targeted.

My 2 :nuyen:
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Garrowolf
post Nov 8 2006, 05:57 AM
Post #12


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 870
Joined: 2-October 06
From: Athens Ga
Member No.: 9,517



I tend to say that you can always use counterspelling on yourself. You have to declare counterspelling on others but you have to keep them in your line of sight to do so. Surprise only has an effect on if you have already put the counterspelling on or not.

Also I only apply counterspelling dice to instances where you are the subject of a spell. I wouldn't necessarily work on Improved invisiblity because the object becoming invisible is the subject and you are just resisting the effect of the invisiblity not the spell.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Demerzel
post Nov 8 2006, 03:48 PM
Post #13


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,206
Joined: 9-July 06
From: Fresno, CA
Member No.: 8,856



QUOTE (Garrowolf)
Also I only apply counterspelling dice to instances where you are the subject of a spell. I wouldn't necessarily work on Improved invisiblity because the object becoming invisible is the subject and you are just resisting the effect of the invisiblity not the spell.

Well, the thing about that is it contradicts the description of the way it is supposed to work. What's the difference between a mana based and a physical invisibility spell? Manabased goes around taking you out of the minds of the people who look at you, and that is why it does not work against non living sensors...

Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Ryu
post Nov 8 2006, 04:16 PM
Post #14


Awakened Asset
********

Group: Members
Posts: 4,464
Joined: 9-April 05
From: AGS, North German League
Member No.: 7,309



Please leave the invisibility angle alone... nothing to see.

The needed rule is on pg. 174, step 7 (ongoing effects). If you walk into the area of effect, you get to resist the spell "as appropiate". No difference to a first-hand target.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Draconis
post Nov 8 2006, 04:27 PM
Post #15


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 394
Joined: 19-May 03
From: In your base eating your food.
Member No.: 4,607



QUOTE (Demerzel)
Also cases of sustained area of effect spells.

Which begs the question:

If you walk into an orgy, do you get the extra resistance dice for counterspelling?

If you did, why would you want to use them? :D
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Garrowolf
post Nov 9 2006, 04:41 AM
Post #16


Moving Target
**

Group: Members
Posts: 870
Joined: 2-October 06
From: Athens Ga
Member No.: 9,517



QUOTE (Demerzel)
QUOTE (Garrowolf @ Nov 7 2006, 09:57 PM)
Also I only apply counterspelling dice to instances where you are the subject of a spell. I wouldn't necessarily work on Improved invisiblity because the object becoming invisible is the subject and you are just resisting the effect of the invisiblity not the spell.

Well, the thing about that is it contradicts the description of the way it is supposed to work. What's the difference between a mana based and a physical invisibility spell? Manabased goes around taking you out of the minds of the people who look at you, and that is why it does not work against non living sensors...

Yes but physical invisibility doesn't effect the sensors - it effects the target.
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post
Demerzel
post Nov 9 2006, 04:44 AM
Post #17


Running Target
***

Group: Members
Posts: 1,206
Joined: 9-July 06
From: Fresno, CA
Member No.: 8,856



Bah, nevermind...
Go to the top of the page
 
+Quote Post

Reply to this topicStart new topic

 



RSS Lo-Fi Version Time is now: 28th March 2024 - 05:16 PM

Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.