What do you think of Horrors? |
What do you think of Horrors? |
Nov 8 2006, 04:23 AM
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#1
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
I get mixed messages about your opinions of the Horrors. You all hate the "Can we beat them" thread and hold it up as an example of forums bullshit, but they were voted the best magical threat in my threats poll. So do they rock, or do they suck, in your collective opinion?
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Nov 8 2006, 04:42 AM
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#2
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
We do? Since when? ~J |
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Nov 8 2006, 04:43 AM
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#3
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
I remember a lot of times people did this... I don't remember when.
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Nov 8 2006, 04:43 AM
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#4
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
You took the words right out of my mouth. |
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Nov 8 2006, 04:44 AM
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#5
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Well... I guess I'm wrong...
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Nov 8 2006, 04:52 AM
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#6
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,286 Joined: 24-May 05 From: A 10x10 room with an orc and a treasure chest Member No.: 7,409 |
I for one don't like them as Shadowrun antagonists. Didn't like the whole SR/ED crossover personally. In Earthdawn they fit because they are a major part of the game. In Shadowrun they don't do it for me.
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Nov 8 2006, 04:55 AM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,213 Joined: 10-March 02 From: Back from the abyss. Member No.: 2,316 |
You forgot the "What horros are you talking about? Oh those metaplot things the writers like to bring up all the time."
I dont think the horrors have played any major role in the 16 years I have been playing. So I would say I dont have any opinion on them, especially since we dont run published adventures or read the novels. |
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Nov 8 2006, 04:58 AM
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#8
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
Maybe it was in That Other Forum? A lot of people here were major participants in that thread. Hell, I don't think I've ever had more fun in a Dumpshock thread. I got to argue and learn, and I was prompted to buy the Horrors sourcebook, which I still hold as the single best sourcebook I have ever read for any system. ~J |
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Nov 8 2006, 05:12 AM
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#9
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Uncle Fisty Group: Admin Posts: 13,891 Joined: 3-January 05 From: Next To Her Member No.: 6,928 |
agreed To answer emo's question, I like them when they're used sparingly. Very sparingly in SR. They shouldn't be used (well, in most cases) just as a big nasty monster with brutal powers. They should be damn smart, manipulative, and disturbing. |
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Nov 8 2006, 05:49 AM
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#10
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i don't like them because they're bad guys. there's no moral choices, there; you may as well have the PCs fight vampire Hitler. i prefer to keep black and white morality way, way away from my campaigns, and it's just hard to do that with horrors.
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Nov 8 2006, 05:55 AM
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#11
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
I disagree, but you know that. ~J |
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Nov 8 2006, 06:03 AM
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#12
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i can come up with interesting moral conundrums involving horrors, or even vampire Hitler. you can, too. but most of the times i've seen horrors in a campaign, it's just been a boss battle. so, as a rule, i don't like horrors.
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Nov 8 2006, 08:31 AM
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#13
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
That's not the fault of the Horror, it is the fault of the modules that have used them as bosses. Well, we've still got the Wraith and the Nomads and that' pretty good. They make decent unnamed Horrors. Of course, the moral choices need not lie with the Horror itself. The wraith are a good example. Their ability to incite violence leave a moral conundrum of apparently "good" people committing atrocious acts under what may be extreme magical duress or which may be a slight suggestion. Does freeing them from the influence of the Wraith free them from responsibility for their actions? Is it okay to punish someone who was influenced by a Wraith. Is it alright to let them go?
I still like the idea of Mr. Darke's replacement commanding packs of cybered Gnashers as fodder. Not all Horrors are cunning adversaries. Some of them are just mindless beasts. There is, by canon, at least one Named Horror still around somewhere (Worlds Without End p.140) He hasn't been dealt with that I know of. Sometimes, I like to think its Nemesis. Sometimes I like to think that its Bonecrown. At the moment, I'm thinking that a naked young woman speaking an unknown language should have been found on the shores of the Caspian Sea by now. |
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Nov 8 2006, 08:35 AM
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#14
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
it's a least partially the horrors' fault, because the horrors themselves are bad guys. i'm not going to say that horrors are one-dimensional, but their morality is; and it's more difficult to make a multi-dimensional landscape using a creature with one-dimensional morals than it would be using a creature with the normal scope. like, vampires and ghouls, in SR? they come pre-packaged with moral dilemma. it's one of their accessories, like those stupid backpacks that all the GI Joes used to come with. |
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Nov 8 2006, 08:55 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 745 Joined: 12-August 06 Member No.: 9,097 |
I think it's good to have a little variety once in awhile, and Horrors provide that option. Complex moral dilemmas are nice and all, but sometimes you just feel like beating the crap out of the bad guy without wondering the whole time if it's the right thing to do.
My opinion: I likes them nasty critters. |
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Nov 8 2006, 09:12 AM
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#16
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
I kind of agree, but I voted Horrors Rock. You can use the Horrors as a coming calamity and find your moral exploration in the in-fighting and betrayals in the face of the disaster. Just at what point will people faced with scarce resources and a fight for survival begin to turn on one another? That's a fascinating opportunity for a morality game based on Horrors. Also, this horrors source book - did it ever get a PDF release? Might be worth a look. |
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Nov 8 2006, 09:47 AM
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#17
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
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Nov 8 2006, 10:54 AM
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#18
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 219 Joined: 26-April 02 From: Emerald City, Oz Member No.: 2,648 |
I'm kinda ambivalent about the issue.
Used sparingly in a cthulhu-mythos-type-cultists-summoning-the-dread-thing-from-beyond kinda way, they can really add to the game. Or if, like we had in one game, you are doing a whole ED rise-of-magic-portents type of event. As an actual threat the PCs are expected to face in combat? Nah. |
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Nov 8 2006, 01:30 PM
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#19
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 903 Joined: 7-February 03 Member No.: 4,025 |
I'm with Wargear. A vague, distant threat that only certain, enlightened people are even aware of, their existence influences everything in the runners world, but the runners will never actually see them, and might not even have heard of them.
The horrors are everything, yet they are nothing. |
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Nov 8 2006, 03:17 PM
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#20
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
The horrors might be cool, but as they pertain to SR, my vote is "suck".
I don't particularly care for the ED/SR crossover stuff. |
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Nov 8 2006, 03:55 PM
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#21
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...never got into ED, never had the inclination since for the most part the group of people I play with turn to the Other Game when they want to do pure fantasy stuff. Definitely not up to speed or care to be about any ED/SR crossover.
For straight up bad ass horrors in a more "modern" setting (eg the 1930s & up"), we go for the best, CoC. I believe there have been and are enough good threats out there set in the SR universe to not require those from ED be brought in: Corps, Toxics, Gangs (yes, even 400 pt characters can have a lot of trouble with gangs), Law Enforcement, Special Forces & Mercs, Pirates, Dragons, GDs (though I would use them very, very sparingly if at all), Manipulative IE's (again used very sparingly), Various Critters & Paranormals, Space (try to not even toss your lunch every waking moment) Environmental (Desert, Arctic, Jungle, Toxic), The Local Urban Brawl team, just to name a few. |
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Nov 8 2006, 03:59 PM
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#22
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
forgot to comment on this. i think you're mistaking "forums bullshit" for "oh god please NOT AGAIN". |
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Nov 8 2006, 03:59 PM
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#23
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
They suck in SR. Despite Earthdawn being great.
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Nov 8 2006, 04:05 PM
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#24
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 130 Joined: 25-February 05 Member No.: 7,119 |
I voted against them in SR as well. They were very overdone in a campaign I played in once, and I never want to see them again. (I'll also never again play in a campaign where the GM is a drama major. He loved the demonic corruption of the soul aspect of the Horrors WAY too much.)
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Nov 8 2006, 04:15 PM
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#25
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Manus Celer Dei Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 17,006 Joined: 30-December 02 From: Boston Member No.: 3,802 |
That is true. Even for awesome discussions, there are only so many times a year one can have them. In this particular case, it's once a year, right around the new year. ~J |
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