 So you want a Lounge?, Or just a place to shoot the breeze... |
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 Nov 13 2006, 08:33 PM
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#1
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Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514  |
Well then check out Animalball, where we've been lowering expectations for a while now!
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Nov 13 2006, 08:34 PM
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#2
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
And I should add, yes I am trolling for people to help populate PB3's!
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Nov 14 2006, 04:15 AM
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#3
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Cool. :)
I still want the Lounge back here though. |
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Nov 14 2006, 05:00 AM
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#4
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
Yeah, well in the mean time maybe this will provide everyone with some familiar faces and a cool place to kick the can around.
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Nov 14 2006, 07:13 AM
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#5
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I was surprised by the amount of 'familiar faces' in the member list, so definitely appreciate the heads-up. :)
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Nov 14 2006, 11:50 PM
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#6
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
Yeah, I'd like the Lounge back too. It'd be a lot more vibrant than AnimalBall is right now, nice as it is. And I'd like to talk to a lot of DSers about religion, politics, and the like, too.
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Nov 15 2006, 05:06 AM
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#7
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
Invite them over.
You'll never get a lounge here again. The people running the show either just can't handle it, or just don't want it. (Depending on which Admin's name we toss out.) |
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Nov 16 2006, 04:43 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 533 Joined: 26-February 02 From: In a hot tub, with lots of bubbles and champagne waiting for you. Member No.: 1,972 |
hm. i thought UW was the only alternative and am suprised to see another forum. How many have splintered from the old lounge?
and are there any hot babes interested in a mild mannered, urbane married man? |
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Nov 16 2006, 10:23 AM
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#9
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Underworld was it for a while, but it seems to have died a slow and somewhat painful death. |
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Nov 16 2006, 02:32 PM
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#10
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
A much deserved painful death, at the hands of it's own members.
And Underworld was really never really the only place. There has been a few: Freespeech Alpha, run by 3278, the above linked Animalball, now in it's second incarnation, and of course wired Reflexes which I think is down right now because I can't access it. |
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Nov 16 2006, 02:36 PM
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#11
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,589 Joined: 28-November 05 Member No.: 8,019 |
What happened to Underworld?
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Nov 16 2006, 03:59 PM
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#12
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
It imploded under the weight of it's own pretentiousness.
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Nov 16 2006, 04:06 PM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
What I meant was that after the demise of the Lounge, Underworld was specifically adapted to fill that role. At the time, the only other place was the slowly sinking Bulldrek. The others you mention came about afterward (well FS-Alpha anyway ... not sure about AnimalBall). I'm not making any statements as to relevence or quality of those forums. I missed the last few months of Underworld, and didn't catch the specifics of the implosion, but the writing was on the wall for a long time. Sad in a way, but it never really was the same as the Lounge ... merely a hangout for the Hugs-n-Kisses Brigade™. |
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Nov 16 2006, 04:37 PM
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#14
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
My problem with any kind of forum that attracts the type of people that tend to complain that they can't just "talk about whatever they want" is that they degrade into ridiculousness.
The same group of people that try to come off as intellectuals wanting a place to freely discuss the important topics of our age tend to degenerate into poo-flinging monkeys with sub-par intelligence when given that opportunity. In my opinion, if a person truly wanted to discuss topics that weren't covered by a particular forum, then they would go to a forum where that topic was covered. Generally in my experience, people that want to be able to discuss "off topic" things on a forum really just want a place to flaunt rules, insult one another, and generally just act like assholes. |
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Nov 16 2006, 04:48 PM
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#15
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
The counter argument to that logic is that a person would have to visit multiple forums in order to discuss a variety of current events, not to mention other topical subjects that might pique the interest momentarily. There is also the fact that people like a sense of community. We all share a love (some more than others) of Shadowrun, so we therefore all have at least some common ground. We are comfortable for the most part with the flow of conversation among the regulars. With this comes the desire to expand the conversation base to topics outside the Shadowrun RPG, while still enjoying the embrace of a community in which you feel comfortable and welcome. Better moderation might have saved the old Lounge. I'm not pointing any fingers or casting any blame, but in my opinion the whole situation could have been dealt with in a much better manner. Water under the bridge, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't mind seeing a Lounge II. :) |
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Nov 16 2006, 05:26 PM
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#16
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
Huh, my experiences are just the opposite. In fact the one forum I visit for "on topic" discussion about a specific thing is DSF, which is ridiculously clogged with garbage that people pretend are posts. Now I try to realize that with nearly 8000 users DSF is bound to have some flotsam, but to me it's becoming increasingly worse. Now that's not to say your experiences or anyone else's mirror my own here. We each have our own tastes.
Really the same could be said about anyone, on any forum-or for that matter in real life. Seriously we're all one bad day, one bad decision away from mayhem. That said I like the balance we've achieved at Animalball currently. In all fairness we have some silliness here and there, but it's generally intended in good humor, and has yet to be a problem. Who knows maybe it will end, but then all forums have a life span right?
Wow, I don't what forums you've been hanging around at, but jeesh did they bias you much? Bitter much? |
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Nov 16 2006, 05:28 PM
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#17
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
If by better you mean no moderation, I'd agree with you. Once you start trying to artificially control the flow of conversation you're bound for disaster. It's how the Lounge died here, it's why Underworld died, it's why RPG.net is such a horrible place. |
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Nov 16 2006, 05:48 PM
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#18
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
Ediolon, Fortune put it very well and I echo everything that he's said. But I'll add that I find the above offensive. We've communicated extensively off-list (as you requested I keep it away from the boards), and so I don't think there's anyone here who has challenged the new, heavier moderation as consistently as I have. And yet, I think I'm one of the politest people here. So what in your experience with myself, or others who've voiced concern about the new moderation, leads you to stereotype us as poo-flinging monkeys? As Paul says, it's the opposite in my experience on Dumpshock. We're a community. We come to know each other. And I'm often interested in people's opinions on things other than Shadowrun. |
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Nov 16 2006, 05:51 PM
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#19
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
The Lounge here was enough, but it is hardly the only time have seen it. And the forums I am a member of currently (speaking of "other than DS here), I'm a member of because they're about topics I'm interested in, have more members that contribute positively than negatively, and are well moderated. Again, if you want unmoderated discussion of random topics, there are plenty of places on the internet to find it, and nothing keeping you from doing so. That's not a "get away from DS" or anything of the kind. Merely factual statement. Frankly, I wonder what kind of forums you've been to, if your experience is one of Utopian harmony rather than of degenerate nonsense. @knasser and others I don't mean any offense to you personally. I'm not speaking of any one person, any two people, etc. However, I have read the old Lounge here. I have seen other forums where the norm is "anything goes". Knasser, you joined after the Lounge was shut down, and therefore don't have the same frame of reference as some others. Paul, maybe you can handle yourself well on an unmoderated forum, no matter what the members and community are like. None of that matters in the "cosmic" sense. You individuals are not the whole of the Dumpshock community. The Dumpshock community, in fact, includes current members, old members, and equally important, new members that join. Moderation and forum atmosphere aren't done and created to cater to one person. They must cater to all, to the extent possible and within the bounds of the context provided by the forum. And due to this, the approach must be one such that all members, current and future, can feel like Dumpshock is a place that they can come and freely discuss Shadowrun and related topics, without fear of being mocked, insulted, berated, put down, and generally made to feel unwelcome. At present, Dumpshock gets pretty close to that. We're working on making it a better place. The fact is, Dumpshock is not anyone's personal playground. Rules and moderation aren't in place to restrict one person's "freedom of expression", they're in place to aid in the creation of the atmosphere I describe above. |
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Nov 16 2006, 06:19 PM
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#20
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
For what it's worth, since I've been around since bulldrek to the Lounge, I remember those forums being dominated by a few "super frequent" posters who often were on differant sides of a fence. Any sizeable thread invariably became a battlefield for the usual suspects, and just these people. If by some miracle you could manage a thread without the thread mafia popping in, yeah, you could have some good and interesting discussions.
Personally, I come here to talk about Shadowrun. If I wanted to talk about something else, I'd go to a forum not, you know, dedicated to Shadowrun. I don't see any reason why the administration of a forum dedicated to a particular RPG would want to have discussions about anything other than that RPG. I don't see anything flawed with letting people carry their non-shadowrun conversations on another forum site of their choosing. |
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Nov 16 2006, 06:40 PM
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#21
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
And yet most do, both for the community reasons I mentioned above, and to keep the signal-to-noise ratio of posts in their main forums down to a manageable minimum. |
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Nov 16 2006, 06:59 PM
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#22
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Incertum est quo loco te mors expectet; Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,546 Joined: 24-October 03 From: DeeCee, U.S. Member No.: 5,760 |
Just to throw in... I never saw the lounge as being especially tightly moderated. While moderation obviously dealt the death knell, it was the lack of moderation that allowed it to spiral into the mud flinging it became. I have frequented other "talk about anything forums" (on www.rpol.net I participate regularly in the community chat) which is controlled more than the lounge was and, as a consequence, is a lot more welcoming and has never faced a threat of being shut down.
I would be curious to get to know many of the posters here a bit more personally than just their views on the Holy Game. However, considering how abrasive some of my fellow posters are, beyond a brief "hi, my name is Robert and I'm a 28 year old white Protestant male from..." I'd feel a bit uncomfortable discussing anything more controversial than the weather. I come to DSF for shadowrun (and Drop Bears). I go to lockpicking101 for lockpicking. I go to RPoL for political discussions. If the lounge came back, I'd watch it out of curioisity, drop a few notes on stuff I know anything about, and then leave unless it was very heavily moderated. Sorry guys, some of you are just a bit too much for my tender sensibilities. Some of the monkeys here do need to be bound with chains and gagged because otherwise they just leave a giant pile of poo that scares away the new people and is an eyesore for the rest of us. edit: Maybe if the 'show new posts' didn't ever show stuff from the lounge it would be okay, to help me completely ignore its existence. Other than that, the lounge, at its best, filled my screen with a page or two of completely stupid or sometimes hateful threads. |
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Nov 16 2006, 07:15 PM
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#23
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
It wasn't. It was unevenly moderated, varying at times from controlled to a total free-for-all. This lack of consistancy left people in some confusion as to what was and was not acceptable. |
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Nov 16 2006, 08:07 PM
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#24
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
You're correct. Please notice I am a member of each of the aforementioned forums. Having been a member of this forum long enough to have seen the Lounge come and go at least twice, maybe even three times I think you have no idea what you're talking about-but that is neither here nor there. You are as in entitled to believe whatever you'd like as I am entitled to believe what I'd like.
And it wasn't taken that way, at least not by me. If you were interested.
Please note in my above post that I mentioned there have been problems from time, but obviously I either have thicker skin than you, or I'm just bothered by a need to have everything perfectly ordered. I enjoy some chaos from time to time. As for the forum I currently run my PB3's, and do the great deal of my discussion on: Animalball.
The implication that most people can't or that you can't? Either way you can understand my vociferous objections I'm sure.
So the community should be limited by that? By what has been? That automatically predicts what could be? I think you have a very narrow view on this, and I think that's a shame. Having been a member of this community since 1997 I can say with out reservation, with out hesitation that it has grown progressively less fun, less interesting and worse. Now maybe you object to that characterization, but it's where I stand-and I think I'm not alone. (Nor do I think you're alone.) Unfortunately for people with my perspective we can get no relief, no consideration for what we want. As such I posted this thread to draw those people to Animalball. Not to somehow in someway childishly attack DSF-but to allow them to take that part of their entertainment elsewhere. And make no mistake, that is what DSF is. Entertainment.
But really, here, they do cater to a small group of people. They have to. They can't make everyone happy, and they've publicly said that their not interested in doing it even if they could.
Have you read the forum lately? Personally I'm surprised half the users who are currently active haven't been banned. Especially considering why previous users have been banned. Now maybe this means the admins here are trying to take a hands off approach, and if so cool. But to me it seems much more likely real life has them busy and they just aren't reading the forums like they would if they were unemployed, in college or what not.
Forgive me for laughing loudly.
Are you part of the moderating team? Or is this just your personal goal?
Well actually as I understand it Marco owns the placem, but yeah whatever.
Says you. Obviously not everyone agrees with idealistic version of DSF. |
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Nov 16 2006, 08:10 PM
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#25
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,001 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Michigan Member No.: 1,514 |
And see, I think Drop Bears is exactly what is wrong with this forum. That and threads like it. |
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