 Build and Repair, ...got any ideas? |
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 Nov 15 2006, 06:15 PM
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#1
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Target  Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 13-October 06 Member No.: 9,611  |
Survival. It's etched in all of us to survive.
With this comes the idea of the survivalist character, the one with good Willpower and the skills Armorer, Industrial Mechanic, Survival (obviously) and the relevant knowledge skills that will allow said character to find food and water without contracting diseases or ingesting poisons. So what I'm asking of the community is ideas for things that a person could/ should create if they were dropped in the middle of nowhere, be it forest or the Barrens. Write down your ideas along with threshold number and interval time to create said item, and if it's complex or just odd what might happen if a glitch occurs. :D |
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Nov 15 2006, 06:42 PM
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#2
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
Not to crap on your idea, cause flavour is always fun, but the "creation of items used for survival" is abstractly included in the Survial test. Calling for additionnal tests from your players would be, well, mean. Unless your basing a entire campaign (or significant part of it) on the need for survial, where expanding the Survival test to something more complex might be warranted.
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Nov 15 2006, 08:00 PM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
I think he means like while survival would allow you to make a pointy stick that works ok, bowyer/fletcher would allow you to make a kick ass native americanesque bow. I sorta like the idea. Off topic...Hmm come to think of it maybe it's just me but haven't the native american nations been pretty much ignored lately? I mean there was SoNA and all. Or maybe I've just been ignoring them. Probably the latter. :dead: |
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Nov 15 2006, 08:41 PM
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#4
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Target Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 13-October 06 Member No.: 9,611 |
The survival test only accounts for how well you can bear it and whether or not you have food. I'm asking about items in general for B/R, if one can fashion tools then it's easier to get food, make shelter, etc...
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Nov 15 2006, 08:51 PM
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#5
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Use the Survival Test success to flesh-out how well the improv "dousing rod" or "makeshift" compass worked in your survival instead of creating a ton of rules. Maybe just grant bonus dice for tools specifically created for that sort of survival and in their possesion (that is, quality manufactured devices, else just consider makeshift attempts part of the Survival Test). |
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Nov 15 2006, 08:58 PM
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#6
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Ain Soph Aur Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,477 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Montreal, Canada Member No.: 600 |
Ok.. but the items you can create are pretty limited. I consider that the creation of a wood spear or other primitive weapon is encompassed in Survival. How else are you supposed to kill that rabbit?
But say the character wanted to make better weapons outside of the hunting for food context, such as to defend from ghouls, then those other skills woud definately play a role. However, I would severly limit the possibilities to create good weapons based on the material lying around. If all he has are trees and rocks, it won`t go much further than shitty spears and clubs. If the character has access to urban ruins or a junkyard, then I could say he can find parts of modern weapons, and then make interesting stuff based on that. Say he finds old bullets, metal, but no gun, then he can make a Captain Kirk Cannon to kill the Big Lizard Thing. |
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Nov 15 2006, 09:20 PM
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#7
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Except that the OP has already differentiated between the Survival and Armorer Skills ... and others. The Skill list he included should be sufficient to cover almost any eventuality. |
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Nov 15 2006, 09:22 PM
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#8
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
This is a good idea, as there are already rules in place that can be used for this type of thing. |
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Nov 15 2006, 10:00 PM
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#9
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
If some bad guys lock you in a garage, you need the skills to convert the wrecked car into a tank with the tools someone accidently left in the garage. Or, if you are alone locked somewhere, use your swiss army and duct tape to build something clever.
Sorry :rotate:. |
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Nov 15 2006, 10:30 PM
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#10
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
This is very, very wrong. Our every technological advance was made by someone who did not have the tools yet. If all you have is wood, fibre and and rocks, for example, you can still make an excellent bow if you have the knowhow. The tools the survival check would give you would be the bare minimum: sharpened stick, deadfall trap, plastic bag pancho, etc. These would help you survive, but certainly not thrive. The B/R skills and Artisan skills would allow you to craft tools that were almost as good (or mayber better, depending on your roll) that those your character could buy in the store. You obviously want Artisan. I can't tell whether Artisan is a great catch all skill that covers all crafting ever, or whether each specialization there is really an independant skill. I favor the latter interpretation. You'd want carpentry, ropes and knots, Maybe pottery and mithing, depending. You also want armorer with a specialization in bows or maybe melee weapons. Survival of course, but don't neglect first aid. He'd also want the entire athletics skill group, and perception, bot honestly what Runner doesn't? |
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Nov 16 2006, 03:58 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 394 Joined: 19-May 03 From: In your base eating your food. Member No.: 4,607 |
I saw that one. Is that the one without the engine so he uses tied on missiles instead? :P |
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Nov 16 2006, 04:20 AM
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#12
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Target Group: Members Posts: 56 Joined: 29-October 06 From: Grenoble, France Member No.: 9,730 |
I think only the Swiss Army knife part is McGyver. I'd say the wrecked car -> tank thing is actually the A-Team 8) |
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Nov 16 2006, 10:25 AM
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#13
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
That was my guess as well. ;) :D |
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Nov 16 2006, 04:44 PM
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#14
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
Yes, I referenced both Mac Gyver and the A-Team (First Shadowrunners ever 8) The A-Team. Not Mac Gyver).
Both are examples of people jury rigging something, which I would totally allow. Building something from scratch is only for dwarves :D. (I think it was William de Worde who theorized, that the only thing a dwarf needs is his axe. With that he can mine ore (*), and build crude tools, which he than can use to build sophisticated tools, with which he can build basically anything). (*): dwarfish axes are part pickaxe (to get rich) and part axe (to stay rich) |
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Nov 16 2006, 04:53 PM
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#15
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The Dragon Never Sleeps Group: Admin Posts: 6,924 Joined: 1-September 05 Member No.: 7,667 |
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Nov 16 2006, 05:54 PM
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#16
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
Buld and repair skills equal "pimp my ride", "I work at microsoft" or "I took woodshop in highschool" :P
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Nov 16 2006, 11:10 PM
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#17
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Target Group: Members Posts: 7 Joined: 13-October 06 Member No.: 9,611 |
Hmmm.. it seems that everyone got distracted by the survival skill and didn't consider what I had posted for.
I was attempting to make this post a reference point for people that were unsure about interval times/ threshold for Armorer or B&E skills... the book doesn't list intervals for anything with the exception of the example. The books example of Armorer was making a shiv out of aluminum siding and tape... threshold 2 interval 30 minutes. The Industrial Mechanic skill example is a flashlight made from a battery pack and a light fixture, with a threshold of 4 and 30 minute interval. What I was hoping to see were your own ideas for weapons/armor or simple gadgets AND importantly the threshold number and interval time to create them. Forget about survival. ...and jeebus, you guys derailed this thread like a penny on traintracks. |
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Nov 16 2006, 11:22 PM
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#18
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
We're good like that. ;) :D Umm ... my best answer is ... I dunno! Personally I would just make the crap up at the time, given that there are so many variables that it is impossible to cover everything in a formulaic manner. So, in other words ... wing it. :) |
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Nov 16 2006, 11:29 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,754 Joined: 9-July 04 From: Modesto, CA Member No.: 6,465 |
Your original post was all about survival so we were happy to oblige. :cyber: Check the software programming chart for some basic ideas to jump off with. It's very much up in the air. Few ways I do it. Take the timeframe they need to complete the task in (2 hours until it gets dark chummer!) and divide my Threshold. So 2 hours / Threshold=4 (Difficult) would be 30min intervals. With that rough guide, you can play with the numbers: 2 hours with T=8 gives 15min intervals or 2 hours with T=16 give 7min (5min per SR4). Constant Timeframe with more Threshold makes the test more dramatic, the tide of success and failure comes and goes. |
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