 Hacking Cyberware |
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 Nov 18 2006, 04:21 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 168 Joined: 26-June 06 From: USA, California Member No.: 8,778  |
Though I am unable to find the exact page, I distinctly remember the SR4 book mentioning that Hackers/Technomancers can hack into Cyberware. If this is true, how is it done? What does the hacker have to roll against?
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Nov 18 2006, 05:03 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Normally cyberware would be tied into the comlink to use its firewall.
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Nov 18 2006, 05:04 AM
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#3
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 617 Joined: 28-May 03 From: Orlando Member No.: 4,644 |
I do believe you will first have to hack the comlink first, I think.
beaten to the punch |
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Nov 18 2006, 05:14 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
POW right in the kisser |
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Nov 18 2006, 05:39 AM
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#5
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Target Group: Members Posts: 69 Joined: 3-October 06 Member No.: 9,529 |
This is one of the things I HATE in SR4. Nobody in their right mind would have wireless cyberware. Almost all cyberware must have a DNI to work so why have wireless? Even Smartlink would make much more sense as skinlink or the old induction pads.
SR4 goes way overboard on wireless. Many, many things make no sense being wireless whereas SR4 never lists anything specifically not being wireless. If SR4 cyberware is wireless, all of my characters will specifically buy the old "crap" non-wireless cyberware. |
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Nov 18 2006, 06:18 AM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
There are actually numerious features that only work with wireless. Image Link on cybereyes is one of them. Allowing your team to see through each others eyes is very helpful if they must split up during the run. The wireless smartlink also has an edge. If someone manages to take your gun you can prevent them from shooting you with it. They even have a drone called a smart firing platform. With it a wirelessly connected smartgun can be aimed and fired by remote. Remember this gear wasn't made for shadowrunners. The common user would find the wireless features useful. And corp security doesn't want there smartlinked guns being stolen and turned againts them, they also tend to have hacker secutity. In the case of cybereyes nearlly every common folk wants wireless. Call your friend and send them an image of what your seeing right now. Wireless can always be turned off, its right there in the rulebook. As stuff like cybereyes have a DNI connection you can mentally shut of the wireless connection at anytime. You also can't hack into a smartlink from a mile away. They aren't wired into the matrix so hacking into one usually requires you be in close gunning range of the target. |
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Nov 18 2006, 07:09 AM
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#7
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Hoppelhäschen 5000 Group: Members Posts: 5,807 Joined: 3-January 04 Member No.: 5,951 |
It requires a connection, though. Cyberware has two network interfaces: Internal routing and wireless - both can be turned off if there is no need to exchange data. Meaning: usually, a character will link his cybereyes with his commlink, either wireless or internal, to perceive AR - but his wired reflexes aren't. To get to his eyes, you would need to hack his commlink first, either coming from the matrix or the air, and then continue to hack his eyes.
It works like any chain of nodess the hacker hacks into. The Device Rating table lists node ratings for cyberware. |
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Nov 18 2006, 07:31 AM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
Do you think that cordless home phones make sense, or would only an idiot let random people outside his house wirelessly tap his phone calls? How about wireless keyboards and mice on computers? Wireless headphones? How about bluetooth wristwatches? In fact, can you name a single piece of present-day electronics that wouldn't have neat features if you gave it a wireless interface? Note the essence cost difference between an SR4 wireless smartlink and a SR3 induction pad smartlink. I think that an 80% essence reduction in exchange for going wireless or routing the signal manually is a pretty good tradeoff. |
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Nov 18 2006, 07:42 AM
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#9
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
This was possible before everything went wireless. As far as comparing present day wristwatches to SR gear, I don't think it's all that valid. Nobody is trying to shoot me with their bluetooth enabled watch, and nobody is going to wipe out my bank account through my wireless mouse. And as far as wireless smartlink being a plus because you can keep someone from shooting you with it, if it gets hacked, you can't shoot them with it either. |
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Nov 18 2006, 08:02 AM
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#10
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
On the issue of cyberlimbs, I gotta say that a Wireless Leg would be about useless. I mean, it's yoru leg. It's right *there*. And if it isn't right there, either A) it's over THERE, and isn't exactly going top hop over to you with a radio signal, or B) it's over there ... and there ... and there and there and there, in which case, getting you probably have bigger worries than someone hacking it.
Ditto with any other cyberlimb, really. Firearms could be given a basic biometric lock instead of wireless if you're worried about someone shooting you with your own gun, while security features (Cameras, maglocks, eleric-eye tripwires) are, well, *security* measures, so shouldn't be set up that easy to overcome. That said, that's how the stuff works for SR4, so I'm dealing with it, but the overall, "WOW! Wireless! Wheeee!" stuff is driving me a bit bonkers. Mind you, I'm not a cel phone user, I'm not a name-brand shopper, and the only wireless devices in my entire house are the TV set, the surround sound system, and one of the two telephones. Teh notion of Texting, instead of talking, is one I still can't grok. So, I'm not at all the sort of person that this "All Wireless, All the Time!" is designed for. I understand why it was done, which is to give Deckers something to do, but forcing the overaly onto everyone, where the personal commlink is teh be-all, end-all of your gear? Gah. I'm hoping that, in a year or two, we'll get a SOTA 2072 where it'll mention the Wireless Fad has passed (NERPS!) and that people are back to being rational about this stuff again. A FEW things are wireless, but only those set up for convinience, not security. And wallets have regained Retro-Cool. :) |
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Nov 18 2006, 08:47 AM
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#11
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 168 Joined: 26-June 06 From: USA, California Member No.: 8,778 |
So, some clarification here. A certain character is almost all cyberware, so getting hacked is a big deal. So, what can he do to protect himself? What, exactly, does an enemy hacker have to roll against to take control of his limbs? If he turns off his wireless on the limbs, is he safe? So even without wireless, is there still a connection between the limbs and the commlink?
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Nov 18 2006, 09:34 AM
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#12
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 870 Joined: 2-October 06 From: Athens Ga Member No.: 9,517 |
okay Having a piece of cyberware as wireless is not the same thing as having it controlled wireless. I know that doesn't make sense at first but bear with me. Your cyberlimbs cost essence so they have a DNI for control. They may also have a wireless connection so they can send diagnostic information to your commlink. This does not mean that the limb can be controlled through the commlink!
In order to control your cyberlimb your have the DNI because it is connected to your CNS, to the same nerves that moved your old meat limb. Now your nerves have some feedback in the form of pain and touch. Now most cyberlimbs have this as well but it can be turned down. Your cyberlimb can generate much more data then this however. It can give exact damage reports, pressure feedback in psi, temperature gradiants beyond what your CNS can deal with. You can send this data to your commlink and know everything you want to know about it. But your cyberlimbs are not rigger adapted or designed to be remote controlled. You are not driving your body around in VR like some sort of anthroform drone. You don't have to buy the pilot anthroform skill even. All a hacker could do to a cyberlimb is shut off the diagnostics feed or send the output somewhere else. You could record what someone else sees through their cybereyes. You couldn't steer their eyes around like cameras. You couldn't even blind a character with cybereyes because the DNI goes directly to the brain - it doesn't loop through the commlink first. (weeelllll I guess you could fill their AR with blank panels so they couldn't see easily but they could always just turn off the input to their cybereyes through the DNI) Just because you can hack into a computer does't mean that you can control everything attached to it. It may not be controlled that way. Also keep in mind that someone with ilegal cyberware isn't going to even use the diagnostics feature for their cyberware because an active wireless signal shows up as there to a hacker or a security officier even if they can read it's output. It just normally gets filtered out of most people's AR. This would be the easier way for most security and police to tell if you have something odd. (he has a signal coming from his legs and his arms with a lot more information then a clothing RFID puts out and a lot stronger signal. He may be cybered. Proceed with caution.) |
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Nov 18 2006, 09:39 AM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 168 Joined: 26-June 06 From: USA, California Member No.: 8,778 |
Thank you. A lot. Seriously.
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Nov 18 2006, 09:41 AM
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#14
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
I'm thinking that was Garrowolf's best post to date.
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Nov 18 2006, 09:56 AM
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#15
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 870 Joined: 2-October 06 From: Athens Ga Member No.: 9,517 |
Really? :) |
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Nov 18 2006, 10:41 AM
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#16
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
I totally agree with Garrowolf but I'd just like to add some elements :
1) Cyberware has signal 0 (3m), which means that you have to hack the commlink before hacking them, or have a microdrone get close enough to the target to relay the signal of the cyberware. 2) Why bother hacking cyberware when you can do much worse ? 2.1) If the target has a skillwire, hack the skillwire and load you own skillsoft (or program it on the fly) and make sure that nobody else can load something else. You'll have the target do what you programmed it to do. 2.2) If the target has a Simmodule (and who doesn't ?), you may be able to do something nice. It's stated in the BBB that in some areas you have ads full of emotive sim feeds which means that there is a software way around the RAS (if there weren't, you wouldn't be able to move while receiving an ad) or that partial sim feeds don't trigger the RAS. So that means that a good hacker can have some kind of "Control Emotions" spell :vegm: If the target has a HotSim Module (a hacker or a chiphead), you can even go straight to BTL feeds and "Control Action/Thoughts" as easily as a mage. :grinbig: |
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Nov 18 2006, 06:17 PM
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#17
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 179 Joined: 15-November 06 Member No.: 9,866 |
Just wait for them to release the rules for ghost hacking. Why bother hacking cyberware when you can hack their brain.
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Nov 18 2006, 09:45 PM
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#18
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
That's called a "Control Actions" spell. Bonus: it also works on the uncybered. Getting back to the topic on hand, I agree with Garrowolf's view up to a point, although my own view takes it a little bit further. Wireless connectivity to implants allows for outside parties to "peace bond" implants against uses that those outside parties find undesirable without outright banning access to those who have those implants. Cybereyes for instance: in SR4 they all come with built in recording capability. I can think of many places that would find this problematic for any number of reasons: museums, sporting events, live concerts, secure corporate facilities, brothels and so on. Do these places put heavy duty cyberware scanners at the door, and ban anyone with cyberyeyes? They could, but I wouldn't like to play in a Shadowrun setting where that was the only option. In my games, places that wish to restrict the video feed transmission and recording capabilities of cybereyes will still have the cyberware scanners at the door, but when cybereyes are detected, they offer up a choice: Load up an agent program that runs on the cybereyes and uses a command program to disable any video transmission/recording, an encrypt program to scramble all connections between the cybereyes and any other devices (leaving the direct neural connection to the brain as the only output), and an analyze program to monitor for tampering. The agent then periodically sends encrypted status reports via the cybereyes' wireless back to security's central computer. If a guest with cybereyes has not yet checked out as leaving, but their agent has stopped transmitting status reports, the central computer notifies security personnel to go looking for them. I use similar "peace bonding" agents for other implants as well. Some simply lock out the unwanted implant function entirely. Others, such as properly licensed combat implants for security personnel, will allow the function to be used, but will make notifications that it is in use. When VIPs go to the airport in my games, their licensed bodyguards can still have implanted cyberguns, for example, but the moment the safety is flipped off on the gun, airport security is being notified by wireless link. I also use this setup for other things that fall under the category of "why would anyone ever want wireless functionality on that, it just makes you hackable?" such as guns. Places that would have asked you to check it at the door let you keep it if they can remotely monitor it and/or control it. |
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