 Ghouls and HMHVV |
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 Nov 19 2006, 03:59 AM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 174 Joined: 10-September 06 Member No.: 9,349  |
How do ghouls infect other creatures with HMHVV?
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Nov 19 2006, 04:09 AM
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#2
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
Through bodily fluids, its most commonly contracted by scratch, bite from the carrier of the desease. So I guess as long as you keep it out of your blood stream your good because its a virus.
The rest of the rules are in Target: UCAS |
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Nov 19 2006, 04:16 AM
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#3
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
By draining all their Essence out and having bodily fluid contact with their Essence-free corpse, just like every creature that uses the Infection power does. That ghouls don't have the Infection power, or Essence Drain, or the ability to survive while at zero Essence should tell you how incredibly unlikely that particlar line of thought is. -Frank |
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Nov 19 2006, 04:37 AM
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#4
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Nice answer frank in that it wasn't an answer.
Other strains of HMHVV requrie your essence be drained to zero example vampire. In those cases your character is already screwed because he/she has 0 essence. The reason there are no rules for infection from ghouls is because its not ment to be turned on the player character. For other HMHVV strains becoming infected usually requires the character go through a "you'd be dead anyway" scenario. So them being infected instead of killed makes its a non-issue. I don't think there should EVER be rules to being infected with Kreiger HMHVV. No one should lose there character from taking one box of damage from a ghoul bite or claw and then mucking up the body test. Being torn apart and devoured by a horde of ghouls is fine way to die. To me that death is just as cheep as your character geting killed off by a sniper as he leaves his house. You can learn alot of stuff from this are of dumbshock http://wiki.dumpshock.com/index.php/Main_Page On the subject of the Ghoul strain of HMHVV they say the following. Krieger HMHVV The Krieger Strain A variant of HMHVV that creates ghouls. Much more virulant than most other strains of the virus, a Krieger infection can be passed on through contact with any bodily fluids from one already infected. Unlike the other strains, Kreiger HMHVV can result in partial infection and requires no essence exchange between the infected and the carrier for the disease to be passed on. At first, these unique traits of the disease led to the mistaken conclusion that the ghoul transformation was a form of Goblinization—though that has since been disproven. The Krieger strain has also been shown to possess geographically-localized variants that create distinct ghoul sub-species such as the long-limbed Sasabonsam of the African nation of Asamando. |
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Nov 19 2006, 04:59 AM
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#5
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Correction, no one should have their character made slightly less playable in some ways yet gain absurd bonuses in other areas because they took a single box of damage from or had unprotected sex with someone who may or may not have been a ghoul and were too cheap or too stupid to go down to their local clinic and get a shot of penicillin or whatever the hell it is they use to cure those infections. In previous editions PC ghoul rules ere available but they softened the infection so that the only possible way you could become a ghoul is if you wanted to become a ghoul (although it was possible to carry the disease without transforming and thus possible to infect others). Heck being a ghoul isn't even that bad. You lose a point of essence and you have to pay a premium for real meat as opposed to soy. That's hardly a death sentence. And Frank's opinion about ghouls is well stated and well known. Just do a little search and things will become much clearer. |
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Nov 19 2006, 11:33 PM
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#6
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,598 Joined: 24-May 03 Member No.: 4,629 |
Ghoul. ... Sex. ... *brain esplode* |
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Nov 19 2006, 11:39 PM
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#7
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 668 Joined: 4-September 06 Member No.: 9,304 |
New kind of russian roulette
you have to sleep with a ghoul, see if you turn into one, if not, next one does. Whole new level to the game, cause you don't just die.... |
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Nov 20 2006, 12:59 AM
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#8
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Ghouls are normal people. They have feelings and jobs and needs just like everyone else. There are doctor ghouls and lawyer ghouls and even supermodel ghouls. Some of them need love and some of them need lovin'. Some of them are darn sexy, too.
It would be a slow game of Russian Roulette considering that the transformation takes three months and a pointless one considering that the infection is 100% curable in the first month. |
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Nov 20 2006, 01:13 AM
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#9
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Heh, the proximal effect of ghoul transformation is an increase in muscle mass combined with a decrease in overall girth. In short, ghouls are thin and muscular. Not fun to talk to, but quite literally a demon in the sack. I warn you: you want to get a ghoul woman to bathe first. Maybe even during the act.
The plotline of ghoul transformation was a dismal failure. It's supposed to be a gothic horror thing, but it's also supposed to not destroy your game. So you gradually turn into a monster, but it's fucking curable so it's not even horrifying! Holy shit, if I don't do something about this situation I'll be transformed in a few months? Well crap, if I don't do something about it I'll starve to death in a week! Secondly, the rules for houl transformation don't turn you into a ghoul. It's the damndest thing. The stat modifiers for ghoulishness are well defined, and the rules presented in SR3 don't give you those modifiers. You get to be a "ghoul-lite". And finally, the nomenclature is nonsensical and insulting. HMHVV means specifically a class of viruses that turn humans and metahumans into vampires. Viruses that turn non-humans into vampires or which transform humans in any other way don't apply. Also, viruses are not named after people, though of course syndromes can be. Anyway, the long and the short of it was that getting bit by a ghoul under those rules gave you a once in a lifetime choice as to whether you wanted to turn into something that was in some ways kind of like a Ghoul. Which meant that it wasn't a "risk", it was an extra option, an advantage. Which means that the presented rules didn't do their job at all - they were supposed to make fighting ghouls more scary but in reality they made it occassionally worth your time to cover yourself in barbeque sauce and stage dive on a group of them. Total failure on all counts. -Frank |
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Nov 20 2006, 03:13 AM
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#10
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 126 Joined: 20-December 05 Member No.: 8,088 |
I used to be one of those ghoul supporter types, until I learned I could become one.
Now they all have to die. |
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Nov 20 2006, 04:45 AM
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#11
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
There's a cure and a vaccine. You can only turn into one if you voluntarily decide to. It's like hating on people with credit card debt. Sure, you could get it too, but they can't make you get it. -Frank |
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Nov 20 2006, 05:34 AM
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#12
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
But they were handing out free t-shirts and frisbees down at the campus quad just for signing up! No one could resist that!
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Nov 20 2006, 09:07 AM
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#13
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Well, one could go all Misery on you and hold you for months without any medical attention other than her her own meager nursing skills, which could make a gosh darn good game if done properly.
"Misery was one of my favorite classical books growing up. Its why I try so hard to kill every single one of my fans" - Jack Kaine, Horror novelist. |
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Nov 20 2006, 03:18 PM
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#14
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ghostrider Group: Retired Admins Posts: 4,196 Joined: 16-May 04 Member No.: 6,333 |
Bah. NIMG. ;) |
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Nov 20 2006, 04:05 PM
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#15
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
So RunnerPaul, why did you turn into a ghoul again?
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Nov 20 2006, 04:40 PM
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#16
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
It is actually a fairly low percentage that are 'normal'. A good number of people turn into feral loons during the transformation. However I will point out that the bonus fiction at the back of the Limited Edition of the SR4 has a ghoul as the protagonist...and it is quite likely you don't realize it till the end though there are hints dropped. So it is pretty much a lock that there will be rules for playable ghouls somewhere in the SR4 supplement books.
Assuming you know about the infection. OK, maybe you are clued into ghoul bites. But under the rules in Shadowrun Companion there are carriers that didn't transform! So always remember: Wrap that rascal! 8)
:rotfl: I assume you are refering to the differences between the single stat line Ghoul in Critters and the different modifiers that come from the transformation? It's called making something that originally was written as an NPC into a playable PC, and providing the variety that comes with that. It's what happened with shapeshifters too. Although the later were still over-the-top powerful even after they were reworked, and they were changed far more than ghouls. |
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Nov 20 2006, 04:44 PM
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#17
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
That assumes: 1) You know about the exposure, which isn't always the case 2) The treatment is available to you within the 1 month window 3) You can afford the treatment Is the treatment as cheap and available as food? I don't recall specifics about that, anyone have canon quotes regarding that? |
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Nov 20 2006, 04:51 PM
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#18
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
You know, I think that's the first time I've heard Shape "I have to buy all my attributes twice and don't get to use any of my abilities and equipment at the same time" Shifters as being "too powerful". Normally I see them referred to as "What's the fucking point!?" or something with more swear words. The limitations are in there, and they are so heavy that the whole "I turn into my wolf form and rip his throat out!" action is essentially impossible. The claws are extremely inferior to guns, the resilience offered by the nerfed regeneration from the Companion is laughable compared to even basic body armor, and the BP costs are higher than anything else in the game. It was brutal beyond belief, and the bonuses you got, while interesting and unique, were so much smaller than the cost as to be laughable. Although I will agree with you here:
Yep. Take an NPC critter type that is juiced up to the point where it's supposed to pose any threat at all to seasoned shadowrunners just getting up in the morning, and then nerf t to bejeebus in order to keep it from being overpowered in PC hands. Except you go too far and end up with something that's extremely crappy and over priced that can't actually do any of the really cool things that made the critter appealing in the first place. -Frank |
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Nov 20 2006, 05:05 PM
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#19
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Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,635 Joined: 27-November 05 Member No.: 8,006 |
The regeneration is still plenty kickass. Yes, it's a little tight to squeeze in a Magician shapeshifter if you are playing a 120 BP game. That's where buying attributes for both forms hurts, like it was intended to. But once they Initiate to hide that dual side and work their way past wards, assuming the ward issue comes up often in your game, they are definately kick ass all over the place. Of course the ghouls didn't get toned anywhere near that much. If you factor in the Critter version as the specific portion of the ghoul population that doesn't run and hide but instead hunts you then it makes a lot more sense as you'll see a good number of Body 7 Ghoul runners. |
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Nov 20 2006, 05:50 PM
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#20
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
What part of "if you get incapacitated with a weapon focus you have to make an Essence check or automatically die" (RSRC, p. 36) did you not understand? Yeah, you had a 5/6 chance of removing damage every turn, but you also had no armor, so you took deadly damage from everything. And you had to roll for Magic Loss every time. A shapeshifter magician was good for maybe three missions, tops. At the end of that she'd either be dead or have lost so much magic that she'd wish she was dead. Standard gang armament included things like Heavy Pistols (9M). A ganger was probably getting a few successes, so you're resisting Serious damage from each shot, and the ganger gets 2. Now, a normal character was running around in an armored jacket over ballistic underwear (Ballistic 7) or better, but the point is that we're looking at an effective TN of 2 for the Body check. A Body of 4 or 5 would expect about 4 successes, dropping a standard bullet to Light. Two hits gets you 2 boxess out of 10 - annoying, but nothing you can't First Aid at the end of the battle. BUt our Shapeshifter is naked. She is seriously looking for a TN of 9. She averages one success for every 9 Body she has. I don't think I have to remind you that there are few shapeshifters with a Body of 9 and probably none with a Body of 18. That means that she doesn't average staging it down even once. A normal Ganger drops her in one round with overflow. And sure, she has a 5/6 chance of being back up at the end of the turn (which let's face it is the end of the combat if SR3 Street Sam are involved) - but she rolls for Magic Loss. So every time someone looks at a Shapeshifter funny, the shapeshifter is out for the combat and rolls for Magic Loss. This just isn't viable for a campaign game, and never has been. The fact that there were chart results that made you "automatically die" - something that didn't happen to any other character just drove the point home. Shapeshifters = Fucked. And they pay more for physical attributes. -Frank |
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Nov 20 2006, 05:58 PM
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#21
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
That is the assumption at core of your perception, and a rather dubious assumption it is. They aren't putting on a kevlar vest? Not using the Armor spell, or have Mystic Armor? If they are that stupid then yes they will die shortly. But if they do put on armor of some sort then the prognosis is much better. |
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Nov 20 2006, 06:03 PM
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#22
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
The essence test was a part of the standard Regeneration power, it isn't gimped in that way. SR3 shapeshifter PC regeneration is gimped because drain only heals at one box per minute, a limitation that critter regeneration does not have.
Needless to say, it is possible to munch out a shapeshifter. The key to doing so is to simply never take your true form and never plan to take your true form. You don't have to be naked and you don't have to kill people with your teeth. Neglecting critter form stats greatly improves your chargen options. |
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Nov 20 2006, 06:05 PM
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#23
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
Shapeshifting doesn't shape shift your clothes. As soon as you assume animal form, you only get a kevlar vest if you stand around while someone else puts it on your body, Like This.
Where is this coming from? You're a fucking shadowrunner, do you really have time to have someone dress you in a doggy sweater every time you transform? -Frank |
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Nov 20 2006, 06:11 PM
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#24
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
You do if you transform at appropriately convenent times. But that aside, that limitation does NOT apply to magical forms of armor. EDIT: It need not even apply to custom made physical armor. Given that in SR even clothing can be made to slow or stop slugs, having armor plates joined by super-stretchy lycra type cloth could be viable for some 'shifter forms. Or you use a manipulation spell to help aid strapping a kevlar doggie-vest on yourself. |
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Nov 20 2006, 06:26 PM
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#25
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Why would you transform? Ever? It serves no purpose in most situations. Maybe if you're a fox or a raccoon and need to scurry through an air vent but if you're a tiger or a bear then that just doesn't work. Seriously, don't shapeshift. Just because you can do it doesn't mean that you have to do it.
And even then, as blakkie pointed out, a shapeshifter can use magical armor just fine in either form. Heck, the very first thing any decent shifter PC should do is learn Armor at Force 12 so that it can be overcast for physical drain. The power of the drain doesn't matter because the shifter can just walk it off. |
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