Illegal Ammo, Question about obtaining Options

[DarkLight]

A question about obtaining ammo...

The SR4 rulebook mentions that ammo prices are per pack of 10...

So if the characters are trying to obtain black market ammo... Let's say they want 100 rounds of EX-Explosive... how do you roll it?

Do they need to roll 10 times? Or just once?

I'm worried about setting a precident to allow them to roll just once because it could make it too easy...

Thoughts?

[kzt]

Ammo is typically packaged in boxes of 20 (fancy pistol and rifle), 50 (cheap pistol or LE ammo), 200 (rifle battlepacks), and cases of 1000. The 1000 and 200 boxes typically contain numerous 20 or 50 round boxes.

The ammo prices in Shadowrun are insane. Of course, the rules for they work are worse. There are many ways to learn how guns really work. Shadowrun designers seem to have chosen bad novels and cheap movies as their only reference material. It would be like writing the vehicle rules based solely on Speed Racer episodes.

[DarkLight]

I agree... but I need some kind of system so the players can't get too many too easily.

[Adept_Damo]

Why, just let them have their ammo. What possible reason do you have for runners not to be able to purchase ammo for their guns, that's stupid.

[Mistwalker]

Part of it will depend on what kind of setting you want.

My players have bought Ex-Ex ammo by the case of 1000. They asked a Fixer of theirs to acquire it for them. It took a couple of game sessions before it was available. We play once a week.


Other problem you have to worry about, is what do you equip your NPCs with? Regular and have the problems of not being able to seriously hurt the runners, or specialty ammo (APDS or Ex-EX or S&S)? If so, then your players will loot at least the ammo.

[DarkLight]

[Butterblume]

Personally, I go with regular ammo most of the time. That's why it is called regular. If most people used APDS, APDS would be called regular (and the regular ammo might be called archaic ;)).

If my players really wanted to, they could buy truckloads of ammo at once. Of course, buying several tons of forbidden ammunition might just call the attention of some government agency, like the ATF (or whatever is appropriate in SR).

[blakkie]

[blakkie]

[Jaid]

if you wish to limit it a bunch, increase the availability per 10 rounds wanted.

thus, reasonable amounts of ammo are not usually very hard to get, but insane amounts (for example, enough ex-ex to refill a half dozen drones) is gonna be a different matter entirely.

[Fortune]

The only time I'd even think of limiting the amount of ammo my Players could get is if we were talking about really special ammunition ... PAC or Barrett rounds and the like.

Normal (meaning most other kinds) ammo should be readily available. Keep in mind that just because they buy a lot, doesn't automatically mean they can carry it all.

[Penta]

Or store it all, particularly safely.

Any of our veterans here have any stories to tell about why that may be a relevant factor?:)

[ElFenrir]

Im cool with letting the folks get the ammo they need, if the availability rolls go through. However, increasing availability per 100 rounds is pretty decent, i think. 100 rounds is a good amount, shouldnt need more unless stuffs really gonna fly...and i can see every 100 it become a little harder to get(maybe 1 increase per 100.)

Barret rounds, they test per box. That stuff is so damned powerful anyway most Barrett PCs usually load about 300 rounds of the stuff at chargen, once they see the availability per box is rougly that of a monowhip.

Thing is, Barret rounds can be hard to get. One box, 10 shots, 10 targets dead. Yeah, that can stay tough :grinbig:

[IvanTank]

IMO, i think that the growth rate of availability should be logarithmic, not linear. ex.
10 bullets -> +0 availability
20 -> +1
50 -> +2
100 -> +3
200 -> +4
500 -> +5
1000 -> +6

and so on.

The above is not strictly logarithmic, but its easier for people who don't like thinking in base 2.

I wouldn't use this for char gen, only when looking for ammo, or other stuff in large amounts, in game.

[Wakshaani]

Combine it to get the total price, then note how Availability and Price interact. (IE, a Y50 order takes a few hours, a Y50,000 takes QUITE a bit longer) ... feel free to season with inflated Street Index as well.

"You want EXEX? Chummer, do you *know* how much demand there is for ... alright, alright, that's what I'm here for after all. Just don't complain when it shows up..."

[crash2029]

I have a story about ammo storage difficulties. My character John and my friend's character Dagger were hired to break a colleague out of a 'Star intermediary holding facility. IE: jail. Anyways we busted in and found some heavy resistance against the guards. Dagger, being his usual brilliant tossed an IPE HE grenade through a port in the armaglass window that protected the quartermaster. Yeah. Boom. Inside were about 15 cases of grenades and over 15000 rounds of EX-ex ammo. In a small room. The resulting not only chunky salsa-ed the guard but the entire jail as well. At that point the fireball hit the propane tank next to the wall. And then engulfed the main 'Star armory and motor pool in downtown Seattle. We ended up with a quarter-mile long crater in downtown. The moral of the story, my friend doesn't get grenades anymore. Period.

[Jack Kain]

It should be remembered that the ammo isn't very interchangable. Assualt rifle rounds won't work in a machine pistol. So if the party uses heavy pistols and assault rifles. They won't be able to use the EX-Explosive ammo from light pistols and submachine guns.

As a GM you can easily increase the cost ALOT for a bulk buy like that.

"Hey AL I need some more EX-Explosive rounds for my machine pistols"
"Well sure Jack, I can hook you up how much you looking for?"
"Oh about 300 rounds, that be 10 clips" (That be 6000 nuyen)
"Dear god Jack, listen its going to take along time to get a hold of that much EXEX unless you want to pay a premium mark up. Say 300%? plus my usual percent"
"That stuff already cost me 10 nuyen per shot and you want to jack it up to 30. FINE how much and how long for 60 rounds?"
"Oh well in that case I can get it to you in three to four days for at standard price plus my usualy percentage"
"You've got a deal Al"

[hyzmarca]

There is such a thing as a bulk discount for a reason. Large quantities are actually cheaper per unit for both the manufacturers, wholesalers, and retailers.

The way I see it, illegal to own does not equal illegal to sell. With extraterritoriality there is no good reason for legitimate arms dealers to not sell military weapons to civilians. Just get your Ex-ex rounds from Weapons World like everyone else. If Weapons World is out of stock then try the Crime Mall.

[Jack Kain]

[Jaid]

yeah, bulk doesn't mean cheap necessarily. if there's low supply, then increasing demand just makes the price go up.

now, i'll agree that getting regular ammo isn't gonna cause this problem, but ex-ex is the kind of thing that governments make a point of not letting you have. hence the 12F availability.

furthermore, most of the reasons buying in bulk makes things cheaper don't apply to buying stuff illegally. generally, you're looking at smuggling things out in small quantities at a time (comparatively speaking), so buying in bulk does not get you a discount because the seller isn't 'producing' it in bulk.

[Konsaki]

I'm with Jaid on this one. It makes more sense.

[Crusher Bob]

You can always break info an ammo storage facility and make off with some. Or have you hacker forge a valid end user certificate and order a few hundred thousand rounds.

[Jack Kain]

[Crusher Bob]

Not all 'valid end users' have air tight security. Pretending to be the UCAS army, or a representative of Areas marcotech will almost certainly fail. Pretending to be a purchasing agent of the Democratic Peoples Republic of the Congo (or whatever) will be much simpler. Ammunition for small arms is just not that big of a deal.

If your runners can't defeat the moderate security of an ammo storage facility, then how can they hope to defeat the security of the typical run target. The typical run target is much more heavily protected that a lot of things the runners might want to steal.

[Jack Kain]