 Take Aim and Called Shot |
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 Nov 22 2006, 04:23 AM
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#76
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Immoral Elf  Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486  |
A man after my own heart. :D |
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Nov 22 2006, 04:25 AM
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#77
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Can I play Nero, the Elven Gunbunny? |
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Nov 22 2006, 04:34 AM
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#78
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 |
Nope, I was Nero sorry... :) Our next mission if we ever play it again is to plant the suitcase nuke inside of Aztecnology's main HQ and blow it up.
Personally I like the lower level street games where my PC does two weeks in jail for possession of narcotics because I like the +1 whatever from dipweed from time to time. And Long Haul pills are nice too. |
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Nov 22 2006, 05:03 AM
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#79
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Psyche all the way! |
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Nov 22 2006, 05:08 AM
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#80
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
No game will ever be abuse-proof, but it can be abuse-resistant. And "bend" and abuse-resistance aren't incompatible things; look up Wushu for a system that's damn near abuse-proof, while still completely wide open. Granted, that's because Wushu allows for some seriously over-the-top stunts in the first place, but it also handles more delicate roleplay situations just as handily. Roanoke, for example, handles gritty horror quite nicely.
You have that more frequently with an abuse-resistant game. I mean, the charging Citymaster should be a bowel-loosening experience for starting shadowrunner teams. Mr. Lucky, among many possible starting characters, can take it out with a single shot from a /flechette/ round, according to the RAW. It should not be a "Ho hum, another Citymaster, time to spend a point of Edge." |
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Nov 22 2006, 02:14 PM
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#81
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
Why not? As long as everyone plays according to the same set of rules (and its interpretations) there would be no abuse. What you call abuse is when someone looks at the system and sees things that no one else does or that everyone else due to their preconceived assumptions of What-Should-Be are ignoring. Mr Lucky shows how luck works in Shadowrun. Mr Lucky does not show how luck works in RL. You can do things with physics and other laws of nature in SR that we in real life cannot, why? Because the rules code how those laws apply in the SR world. It is when you take the SR world code and compare that to RL that you see "abuse". |
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Nov 22 2006, 02:22 PM
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#82
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Midnight Toker Group: Members Posts: 7,686 Joined: 4-July 04 From: Zombie Drop Bear Santa's Workshop Member No.: 6,456 |
Just because you destroy a Citymaster by bypassing armor (unlikely due to its high body, he'd need to spend closer to 3 points of Edge) doesn't mean that its going to stop moving. There is such a thing as inertia and a destroyed armored vehicle moving at 50kmp/h will crush you just as easily as an intact armored vehicle moving at 50km/h will.
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Nov 22 2006, 02:32 PM
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#83
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
You are assuming in the SR world, there is such thing as inertia or that a destroyed vehicle will continue moving. I do not make any assumptions the rules do not state. If I do, I will make it clear that those assumptions are House Rules.
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Nov 22 2006, 03:00 PM
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#84
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Just because you don't trust yourself or your GM doesn't mean nobody else can. I've yet to see anyone come to this board shouting "help! my street sams are dropping citymasters like flies!" I've seen a lot of other questions, concerns, and asking for advice though. And the beautiful thing is that with SR the first response to "how do I handle ___" is often "what power level are you looking for." SR4 handles various power level excellently, if you either let your GM do his job or agree as a group what power level you're looking at. Nobody will ever convince Cain or SLJames that the SR design team's choice to allow lots of wiggle room was a good one. Nor will those two, especially not Cain with his ludicrous "the sky is falling" examples, convince anyone that likes SR with wiggle room that adding it was a bad idea. And besides, this banana has already been peeled. Begging for the peel to be put back on is pointless. If you don't like the way the game is written house rule it or don't play. There certainly won't be an SR 4.5 coming out tailor made to fix all the problems you think exist. |
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Nov 22 2006, 07:17 PM
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#85
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
So, if I throw the banana peel in front of the Citymaster and roll edge, can I destroy it?
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Nov 22 2006, 07:19 PM
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#86
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
No, that would be silly. You could, at best, force a crash test. You would have to throw the bananna peel *at* the driver through the exhaust port to kill him, which would then kill everyone in the ensuing crash. Duh. |
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Nov 22 2006, 09:11 PM
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#87
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
Actually, Hyzmarca is right on that one; it's covered under the Crash test rules. Note that if the vehicle is travelling at any speed, the people inside will become red paste. Which means you don't just take out the Citymaster, you take out the SWAT team inside as well. As for why taking out citymasters in one shot is a bad thing, it kills that "wiggle room" James was referring to. You're now forced into a higher-powered style of game, simply because of one loophole. Each and every loophole forces the power level up higher and higher. |
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Nov 22 2006, 09:27 PM
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#88
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
A citymaster is a civilian Armoured Personnel Carrier. It is designed to be invulnerable to everything up to at least light machine gun fire (so say I). So there is no way at all someone can fire a small arm and kill anybody inside, unless someone else left the door open, or it is a citymaster convertible.
Now, if someone wants to disable the citymaster with the usage of edge, they might try to shoot down the heavy billboard hanging above the street, or shoot the garbage truck approaching from the sidestreet so that it will crush into the citymaster... |
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Nov 22 2006, 09:36 PM
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#89
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Target Group: Members Posts: 52 Joined: 17-October 06 Member No.: 9,636 |
Reminds me of RiFTS. Anyone play that game? It's like sepuku in paper format. |
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Nov 22 2006, 09:41 PM
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#90
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 6,858 |
Written by Munchkins, played by Munchkins. Probably my worst RP'ing experience in 25 years. |
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Nov 22 2006, 09:45 PM
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#91
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
Let me show you my cyborg gorilla that drives a mech. He has the coolest robotic t-rex with lasers you've even seen for a pet!
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Nov 22 2006, 09:46 PM
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#92
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Target Group: Members Posts: 52 Joined: 17-October 06 Member No.: 9,636 |
Agreed... horrible system. But, I found the story world interesting. I'd love to see it ported to a more reasonable game system and of course, with proper game-balance techniques applied to it. I just thought the world had so much story potential... Sigh. |
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Nov 22 2006, 09:49 PM
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#93
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 212 Joined: 30-November 04 Member No.: 6,858 |
Bet my TacNuke armed Titan can take him... |
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Nov 22 2006, 09:59 PM
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#94
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
It would, except that he travelled to Arthurian times and met Merlin, who cast a spell on him that he can only be harmed by Excalibur. Oh, and he broke Excalibur after that happened. |
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Nov 22 2006, 10:07 PM
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#95
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,206 Joined: 9-July 06 From: Fresno, CA Member No.: 8,856 |
I used to want a Tesla Roadster . . . but I got's ta git me one of those . . . |
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Nov 22 2006, 10:16 PM
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#96
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Genuine Artificial Intelligence Group: Members Posts: 4,019 Joined: 12-June 03 Member No.: 4,715 |
Oh that is sexy. :love: |
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Nov 23 2006, 01:01 AM
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#97
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
I'm not sure you're understanding what I'm saying, so I'll try again. My entire point is that groups that want to be able to take out city masters with a single shot at -52 will be able to. Groups that don't use their discretion. It's called knowing what you want from a game and not being afraid to get it. That's the attitude that SR4 was built around. The alternative is knowing what you want from a game and then not getting it because of some sort of psyhcological block that manifests itself as fear of "GM Fiat" and "Group concessions." |
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Nov 23 2006, 11:01 AM
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#98
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Awakened Asset Group: Members Posts: 4,464 Joined: 9-April 05 From: AGS, North German League Member No.: 7,309 |
And that flexibility is the reason I often write of "we do" and "we donīt" despite a current ban on houserules. Most rules of SR4 make sense if you apply them with a bit of common sense. IE. Iīm not allowing unskilled use in all cases where the skill would allow it. You can do simple tasks you might just get right due to other skills, but not everything. You can take that shot if a few dice are missing, but not the banana-trough-exhaust-trick.
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Nov 23 2006, 12:03 PM
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#99
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Canon Companion Group: Members Posts: 8,021 Joined: 2-March 03 From: The Morgue, Singapore LTG Member No.: 4,187 |
I'm not disputing that the people in the vehicle takes damage. I am disputing whether the people in the line of travel of the citymaster(which is presuming going to run them down) takes damage. There is no rules concerning this situation as far as I know. |
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Nov 23 2006, 05:00 PM
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#100
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
Whether nearby people are endangered by a crash is way too situationally dependent to make a hard and fast rule for it. I typically decide based on whether the driver wants to hurt them or not (give him a drive test), whether the nearby people are surprised or not (usrprise test), what angles the fight was happening at and who was turn or not, and whether the people can get out of the way or not (dodge test).
Likewise "will it add anything to the game" is a factor. If crashing and burning, killing several innocent organ grinders is not going to matter, then don't worry about the rolls and just continue the game. |
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