So just what do the attribute levels mean? Options

[Penta]

Something I'm finding while creating characters for SR4: The descriptions for attributes really do not say much.

Say, for humans:

What kind of people have Agility 5? Body 5? Strength 5? Intuition 4? Logic 2? (And so on and so forth)

What do the attribute ratings MEAN in real life?

[fool]

agility 5- can work as background for cirque du soleil, bend over backwards and touch their hands flat to the ground, catch a fly in mid flight
strenhgth 5 - can run jump swim climb etc really well.
body 5 - one word, lineman (as in football)
Intuition 4 - it hard to sneak anything past this person, but not impossible
logic 2 George Bush

[Caine Hazen]

Someone should come up with a table like the skills have for this... Although I'm sure that you can draw conclusions from real life and argue over them for a time ;)

[Lord Ben]

[Kyoto Kid]

[OneTrikPony]

mentioning RL comparisons sometimes gets one flamed, be carefull.

but about your question;

STRENGTH
in real life having a strength of 6 --the maxumum posible for a natural human that's not on drugs--means that you can lift a wopping 66lbs, over your head without even trying.

If you're healthy, and of average size for a human, (you have a body of 3) and you try real hard you could lift 99lbs. over your head.

It is metaphysicaly imposible for a real life shadowrunner ;) to lift more than 132lbs. over his head.

Normal humans who have never trained, (have a strength of 3 and running skill of 0), can run a little more than 20 miles an hour.

A really strong olympic level sprinter, (has strength of 6 and running skill 6), can run 31 miles an hour.

BODY
As mentioned above if you're of normal size, have normal bone dencity, and healty cardiovascular and hormonal systems you have a body of 3.

A normal person who's been shot by a small pistol can recover completely without outside intervention in 2 days. (provided the damage wasn't increased by the shooter somehow managing to hit the shootee in a bone or vital organ or major artery.)

Higher body stats indicate both better resistance to physical trauma, pathogens and disease. You heal faster as well though even a troll with 15 points of body requires one day to heal one box of damage.

It would be interesting if some of the Balistics experts could post some of their knowledge of wounds in this thread to see how *realistic* the body attribute isn't.

REACTION
to day some of the fastest reaction times recorded were those of race car drivers. the test was to stand in front of a pannel of buttons and punch the butten when they lit up. The fastest of those tested averaged 0.24 seconds to complete the task. (the study was in an old magazine I'll try to find it so I can post a reference.)

there is a reaction test you can take here I averaged 202 miliseconds with a standard deviation of 44.92 on my second try. My guess is that I probably have average reaction times. We'll get a better idea if more people take the test and post their results. I bet there are some gamers who can cut that time in half.

LOGIC
if the right person reads this thread he/she will probably be able to make a good arguement that Logic maps directly to todays IQ tests.

Personaly I don't think you can test inteligence. 14 years ago I scored 1450 on my SAT test that was the same year I flunked out of school. Interestingly, the first time I took the Reaction test linked above, it took me 1.8 seconds to figure out that I was supposed to be using the KEYBOARD :grinbig: I think my logic attribute is broken.

The other attrubutes, agility, intuition and will are too esoteric to be quantified.

Clear as mud?

[OneTrikPony]

[Lord Ben]

[OneTrikPony]

[Da9iel]

No, humans have generally stopped improving genetically. In fact, we're probably going backwards. We treat diseases and let people with inferior genes breed. We prop up the weak/slow/clumsy/frail/stupid/oblivious/etc with charity and social programs (thus letting them breed). Natural selection seems to have been thwarted.

[edit] Not that that's wrong per se. [/edit]

[kzt]

[OneTrikPony]

[PlatonicPimp]

Dispelling Misconception of natural selection:

You actually CAN'T thrawt natural selection. Natural selection is the process whereby environmental factors effect what traits are passed on to the next generation. Our environment just happens to be vastly different than, say, prehistoric africa. Survival of the fittest doesn't mean that the most fit survive. Actually, frequently obviously superior traits wind up getting bread out because they require too many resources (example: larger species are harder to feed during lean times despite being in most ways superior physically to smaller ones), and traits that actually inhibit survival can propigate if they aid or at least don't hinder reproduction (example: Peacocks). Truely, survival of the fittest means that which survives, is declared fit. Congratulations.

Furthermore, traits that were previously advantagous can become disadvantageous, and vice versa. For example, a thick fur coat during an Ice age is excellent, but 10,000 years later its the bald freaks who are doing better.

For the first reason, natural selection never stops acting on us, because anything other than deliberate genetic selection for certain traits is natural selection. Only a population where all breeding is done through cloneing would escape natural selection. All that modern convienience has done is change what traits are selected for. The ability to get along well with other humans is now more important than your ability to survive getting hit by a Mammoth.

For the second reason, The very idea of definitively "fit" traits is a fallacy. What traits are eseful or not depend entirely on the environment. The environment changes, and the fitness of traits change as well.


Ponder this: Humanity is the only species capable of thinking about the nature of the universe. This has given us many a breakthrough that makes our lives easier, but it also allows us to examine and adopt abstract principles that we are willing to die for. Only Humans commit suicide or go to war over ideology. Is sentience REALLY a survival trait?

Support your statements with quotes form the book, 200 word essay, due next monday.

[jervinator]

Onetrikpony - I dunno if this helps, but I got 211.9 with a standard deviation of 19.61... after three beers. I'd say you're about average.

[blakkie]

[OneTrikPony]

@jervinator

Dude! you're biasing the experiment! Sober up and do it again.!!! !
:D
That's a pretty close time, I took a flexoril when I got home from work. So we've proven so far that 3 beers is roughly equal to 10mg of cyclobenzapriin.

Interesting that you were more consistent than I was. I should start drinking befor I draw.

Still no one is bothered that the pinacle of human strength can only press 130 pounds?

No one is opening the can of worms about logic 3 being equal to an IQ of 100?

Should I start the fire? OK

Intuition is the innate cabability to process information in the forebrain. Girls should have an average intuition of 4. So there!

[Ben]

[Da9iel]

[WhiskeyMac]

I disagree Ben. Even though I'm far from a Body and Strength of 6 in RL, I wouldn't be able to look like The Governator or even a body-builder. My frame simply wouldn't support it. I'm Irish/Scottish, so I'd be maybe a little thicker than I am now and very wiry and toned but not bulky or super muscular. RL comparisons to Shadowrun stats just end up like the ridiculous skill level chart and make you groan every time you see it.

I got a 257.0 with a deviation of 38.53 after staying awake about 16 hours with only 4 hours sleep. Not sure how that works out. I'll try it on one of my days off and see how I do.

I'd agree with the women get 4 intuition base but they also have a logic of 2 and automatically get the vindictive flaw :D

[krayola red]

To add to the data set, I got a 179.8 with a standard deviation of 43.99 on that test.

My reaction is bigger than your reaction! *double finger snap*

To be fair, I did take it multiple times, and that was the best score out of the lot. :)

[OneTrikPony]

[Da9iel]

I never ever intended to imply girls (females) were inferior. If you read that regrettable thread you'll see that some of the complaints bemoaned a charisma bonus to offset a strength penalty. If some nut were to try to implement a similar strength penalty and offset it with a bonus to intuition (or vise versa for males) I believe the protests would be similar. (Strength being often considered a dump stat.)

P.S. Best I don't drive either. 238.3 sigma 48.7 (got one lucky twitch).

[blakkie]

[Wakshaani]

On teh lifting issue, you can hoist 15 KG per point of strength with no effort at all, and, if you exert, you get Body + Str to test, with each hit adding 15 KG to your lift.

So, Average Guy with 3 + 3 can lift 45 KG without trying hard, or 75 KG with some grunting. (That's about 100 lbs and 165 lbs, respectively).

Big Meaty Guy with a Body of 4 and a Str of 5 can do 75 KG without a problem and 120 KG with effort. (165 lbs and 265, there.)

A bigtime powerlifter with Body 6 and Strength 6 can lift 90 KG all day like it was nothing, up to 150 KG with effort, and, if he wants to use edge to win a contest, could go as high as 270 KG on his best day. (200 lbs, 330 lbs, and 600 lbs, respectively)

It's a tad weaker than people actually can, but not by much and close enough to count. Yes, there are power lifters (Such as Mark Henry) who can hoist a thousand pounds (A solid 500 KG!), but, they hold this sort of thing for three seconds at best and, well, very controlled situations.

Don't really see the complaint, here.

[blakkie]