 new revolution-post coup, trying to run a new rev campaign in 2070 |
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 Nov 27 2006, 02:31 AM
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#26
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd  Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473  |
Oh, it's been going on in Shadowland for two years IRL. Some PCs have been pretty involved in it, knowingly or not, doing all sorts of things from smuggling to wetwork to money laundering.
And, oh yes, it was off the books. The rest of the file goes into more detail, but only just (this is an excerpt from of the public hearing). Suffice to say, this was even more grossly illegal than Iran-Contra. You know, thinking back on it, I can't help but think of Angela Colloton giving a speech from the East Room without being reminded of what happened the last time a (retired) general did something similar. |
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Nov 27 2006, 02:53 AM
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#27
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King of the Hobos Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 2,117 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 127 |
May have to dig out my old SL log in codes, if I can find them. If this is available for public perusal what's it called? Since you mentioned its been going on for a couple years I'm guessing this grew out of the original Threats 2 material rather than just your rabid dislike for System Failure. :)
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Nov 27 2006, 03:24 AM
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#28
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 26-November 06 Member No.: 10,007 |
I don't know I understand that the confederates and UCAS split because of a political disagreement but I still think that they would rather have their ideal vision of the US ruling north america. Succesion was more an act of self preservation than a wish to see north america fragmented and weak. plus I'm sure they'd love to have US support fighting aztlan right about now.
actually I don't necsisarilly see ares being nationalized though it would be a stupid move on the nr's part to allienate a potential ally I think. frank that's the stupidest thing I've ever heard why would bush want america to fall? Why would a slow hurricaine response be his method of accomplishing this? Especially when the response which I guess could have been faster was still well within acceptable parameters and the funds offered were unusually high. The only way he could have sent releif sooner is by releiveing the governor of authotiry under the insurrection act which exists for the sole purposes of preventing insurection (this in theory would mean placing the governor under arrest and invading louisiana...which I think would have made you even more angry) and then there's always the fact that the flooding would have been much less severe if environmentalists had allowed the levie repairs to proceed in the first place. but back to the NR...so I guess you all feel it is wisest to assume that the UCAS revolutionaries are now working with UCAS support to destabilize their neighbors? Taking up covert millitary jobs etc? |
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Nov 27 2006, 03:31 AM
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#29
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
Not all of Ares ... just Ares Space. |
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Nov 27 2006, 03:33 AM
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#30
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Because ares essentially leased NASA from the US, but when the lease was up, the US no longer existed. the UCAS tried to collect, but ares didn';t accept that they were the inheritors of the debt and since the UCAS couldn't force teh issue, Ares kept NASA. If the US reformed, they'd have to give it back.
And while Frank's response is hyperbole, it raises the point I tried to make. The president can't directlyact to harm the country they rule, at least not so long as they still answer to others. If she overtly acts to undermine her country, she'll be impeached. instead, she'd have to make ineffective but active responses to outside threats, responses that appear to be proactive but totally fail to fix the problem, possibly causing more problems in the long run. The difference between that and Bush is that Colloton would be doing it on purpose. |
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Nov 27 2006, 04:57 AM
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#31
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
The thing is that both nations have pretty different versions of what their ideal America is. This has been discussed to death before, but it pretty much boils down to the fact that the CAS is (in SoNA anyway) pretty politically moderate whereas the UCAS is like Spain before the Civil War: Divided between very polarized positions with virtually no middle.
You see, there are these things called "jokes." We tend to toss a lot of them around here. You may get used to it, but frankly, I hope not.
Not exactly. Some may. The number of factions with their own goals is rather diverse and quickly approaching infinity.
Or you can destablized other countries and then take them over while you stay President of an American Empire. *cough* GitS:SAC *cough* Seriously, if General Yeats was Colin Powell, making Angela Colloton be a female President MacArthur would just be the goddamn funniest thing ever in SR (which is saying a lot). |
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Nov 27 2006, 04:07 PM
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#32
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 26-November 06 Member No.: 10,007 |
oh come on joke or no that was clearly an attack against Bush and while I make it a rule to never start a political discussion where it doesn't belong because it only leads to an argument, I also make it a rule never to back down when someone else starts one....wow that's a run on sentence. (Also I've met plenty of people that have said things like that in complete seriousness, so you never can be too sure)
anyway... ares space is what I meant I don't see that being nationalized automaticly. They bought it from the US fair and square. Though ares was clearly fighting the coup forces I could see them being brought into the coup as pro american as they are. I'm pretty sure Colloton wouldn't try to bring the UCAS down though. Seems like that'd be shooting the new rev in the foot. I think it far more likely to use that as a base of operations to start a war of reunification. Now that she controlls the UCAS I think it could just be a matter of renaming it the US and restoring the old system of governernment. "The thing is that both nations have pretty different versions of what their ideal America is. This has been discussed to death before, but it pretty much boils down to the fact that the CAS is (in SoNA anyway) pretty politically moderate whereas the UCAS is like Spain before the Civil War: Divided between very polarized positions with virtually no middle. "-sl jmaes well yeah but I mean they don't want to be alone...they just aren't willing to accept the politics of the UCAS. If the US reformed and did everyhting they wanted they would stop advocating sucession I think. That's different then the NAN, or elven nations who don't want the US to exist in any form. Well most of the nan anyway (or some?...any way we can get our hands on a pole?) Though that actually brings to mind one major question I've had. Do do you guys think any organization calling itself the new rev still exist in any form? Even secretly? And do you think they know angella was a member. Would their politcial differences be enough to get them to fight to overthrow Colloton? |
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Nov 27 2006, 05:33 PM
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#33
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Actually they didn't buy NASA "Fair and square". They LEASED it. The equipment and locations Ares got were to be returned later. When that later came, there was no US anymore. So Ares kept the stuff. if the US were to reform, they could come collecting because technically, Ares owes the US.
Of course, they could argue non-continuity: that this US isn't the same as the old US: that chooseing the same name as a previous nation doesn't give you rights to collect their debts. But Its a long legal battle anyway son I don't see Ares supporting the new revolutions goals unless they get a solid promise that they'll never come collecting. Now for the painful part: I feel that your personal sentiments regarding our country are coloring your judgement about the new revolution. By Canon, they are not heroes, they are shadowy conspirators. They have more in common with Timothy Mcveigh than George Washington. The UCAS is not the US. It's not even close. The country that most exemplifies the US as it is today is the CAS. But it is stated the the New Revolution doesn't see ANY of the successor states as the rightful US. They want ALL of them to fall. Their goal and M.O. is to destabalize all the existing governments in hopes that the populace will rise up. That is not to say that they won't use the UCAS as a base of operations to start wars of conquest with other countries, just that in the end, they'll topple the UCAS too. It's your game, so you can change the New revolution however you want. But be aware that changing them from terrorists who want to destroy evey nation in N.A. to heroes trying to reunite everyone with the UCAS is a change from Canon. |
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Nov 27 2006, 05:45 PM
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#34
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
If I recall and SL James can you help me out and let me know if I got my thinking cap on...
The Natzi of the new revolution was killed by his protoge and how he's slowly taking over (having killed the troll too). So with the senator, the natzi, and the troll dead that only leaves him and the sellout native american. As far as the the natzis apprentise he has the same M.O. as his dead teacher but bigger political and charitable connections. I think he donates a lot to medical and some corp programs. I remeber reading it somewhere I think SoNA had those clues. So there are only 2 left in the new revoultion playing for power. I think one advocate and one clak and dagger. |
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Nov 27 2006, 06:01 PM
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#35
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Not exactly. According to Loose Alliances *puke*, the Doktor killed the Troll and usurped the Nazi, which left the Senator, Loon and Zealot. With the Senator gone - assuming Braddock was the Senator in Alamos 20,000- there would be three leaders. If, OTOH, the Loon also showed his hand during the coup, then it could just be split between the Doktor and the Zealot as well as the inevitable power-grabbers who would try to carve out their own factions. As for what is left of the NR, there just isn't enough information to say. |
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Nov 27 2006, 06:15 PM
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#36
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
Thanks for helping me out I was struggleing this morning with the NR :-)
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Nov 27 2006, 07:07 PM
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#37
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
I don't know, why wouldn't you use correct punctuation? I'm not you, andI'm not Bush, your motives are incorrible to me. I can speculate, but I can't know. Still, here's some speculation:
But here's what I do know: In 2005, I was stationed in a Construction Battalion Base in Gulfport Mississippi. The bridge to Waveland was out and we had to ship supplies all the way around. The Sea Bees are an elite unit of combat engineers who are some of the fastest and most efficienct bridge builders the world has ever seen. They had the tools, the manpower, and the skills needed to put that bridge back up at any time in under 24 hours even if they were being shot at. All they needed was an order to be signed. That order is already prepared ahead of time and placed in a folder along with all the other similar orders so that it can be delivered in an emergency situation with a single signature. A signature which, despite that order being sent out, never fucking came. Ever. Do you understand the magnitude of that? Can you wrap your mind around it long enough to use some correct capitalization? Whatever the motives were, and I can of course continue to weave increasingly elaborate conspiracy theories all day, the fact is that Bush chose to have craftsmen and equipment alread in place in the gulfcoast region stand down rather than rebuild an infrastructure that would facilitate the feeding of the displaced people of the region. That was his choice, and he made it, and Americans died. Did he do it in order to create a need for contractors that could then gain emergency no-bid contracts of billions of dollars (who would coincidentally be long-time business associates of the vice president)? Did he do it in order to create a need for a new disaster response standard that would then be allowed to have officers who were specifically charged with the protection of corporate intellectual property? Did he do it in order to make a power grab for more executive powers over the National Guard's actions? You know what? I don't fucking care why he did it. It honestly doesn't mean shit one way or the other why he went out of his way to make the response to Hurricane Katrina a failure. If an American president voluntarily razes an American city, what fucking difference does it make why? -Frank |
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Nov 27 2006, 07:45 PM
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#38
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,219 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Lofwyr's stomach. Member No.: 1,320 |
Righteous Rage, Frank , but this isn't the place. I think you've made your point, but I'd rather not see this turn into a flamewar over Bush.
So please, Lime, Frank, continue this in a private thread if you must. |
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Nov 27 2006, 07:54 PM
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#39
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
Or apply it some way into a creative plot device for a new sourcebook about new Orleans :D
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Nov 27 2006, 09:25 PM
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#40
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Aside from quoting Thomas Jefferson so far out of context that it hurts. |
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Nov 27 2006, 09:51 PM
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#41
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 101 Joined: 27-October 02 From: Chicago Containment Zone Member No.: 3,504 |
Oh trust me. While I incorporate some of the things SONA says about The Big Easy, I have it as essentially the South's New York, Inc.. |
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Nov 27 2006, 09:56 PM
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#42
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
Then hows about letting me play with you. You havent answered my email yet :D
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Nov 27 2006, 09:58 PM
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#43
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i'd say he resembles Lafayette--attacking Britain by seperating it from its support structure. the only reason we hold Washington in such high regard is that he won. if McVeigh had sparked some revolution that replaced or significantly changed the government, our kids would learn about his heroism in history class. much the way Angela Colloton is a national hero in SR, come to think. |
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Nov 28 2006, 04:39 PM
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#44
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
Why do you hate me so much?
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Nov 28 2006, 04:40 PM
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#45
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
He's a shining ball of hate too? Maybe? :D
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Nov 28 2006, 04:41 PM
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#46
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 340 Joined: 18-September 06 From: Chicago (CZ) Member No.: 9,422 |
Hug it out fellas :D
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Nov 28 2006, 04:42 PM
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#47
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Great, I'm a Dragon... Group: Retired Admins Posts: 6,699 Joined: 8-October 03 From: North Germany Member No.: 5,698 |
Group hug! :D
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Nov 28 2006, 05:53 PM
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#48
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Shadowrun Setting Nerd Group: Banned Posts: 3,632 Joined: 28-June 05 From: Pissing on pedestrians from my electronic ivory tower. Member No.: 7,473 |
mfb? Hardly. |
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Nov 28 2006, 06:25 PM
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#49
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Prime Runner Group: Banned Posts: 3,732 Joined: 1-September 05 From: Prague, Czech Republic Member No.: 7,665 |
No we wouldn't. If McVeigh had managed to spark a revolution against anything it wouldn't have been against the current regime. Remember that even by his own standards, he hit the wrong target. If you buy the "black helicopters filled with jackbooted UN ATF agents are trying to take your guns" line, you've still got to deal with the fact that McVeigh didn't blow up a bunch of helicopters - he destroyed a daycare center. If armed changes happened it would only have been to crush those who were seen to support McVeigh's activities. Even if a ccunter-counter revolution had occurred, McVeigh would still be a villain, not a hero. McVeigh never could have been a George Washington, though it's possible he could have been a Marinus van der Lubbe. -Frank |
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Nov 28 2006, 07:22 PM
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#50
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 134 Joined: 26-November 06 Member No.: 10,007 |
alright alright, but like I said I have a code and you have no idea how hard it is for me not to respond to franks post... :bites fingers....you know cause biting my tongue wouldn't do anyhting cause I'm typing.:
anyway... - are you sure they leased ares space? I could have sworn they bought it. Though if they did I suppose that does make alot more sense. -I actually think you may have misterpreted a little bit...they don't want to destroy north American society. They want to rebuild the United states. The whole point of the coup was to destabilize the region to undermine faith in the current governments so as to make their overthrow easier. But the point of that overthrow was to restablish the united states of america. Sure their methods are ruthless but what choice do they have? Bare in mind that threads was written by camptain chaos who wanted anarchy to rain through out america. A ballanced indiviual he aint. Good and evil is all a point of view dependent on on'e political beleifs...based on mine I choose to believe that they're the good guys. regardless I don't see that running the UCAS into the ground would bring them closer to their goal... with them in controll of the territory they can turn it into what ever they like....if they bring it low it would just make it harder form them to rebuild later. -wiat a second how do you mean they're quoting jefferson out of context? |
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