Hackers unbalanced?, Are hackers dominating the play time? Options

[FriendoftheDork]

Hei after playing this game a few sessions it turns out our technomancer became the #1 character in the party. Whenever we need to do something its always easier to use the techie than to investigate "manually."

Need info? Hack target system, check cameras.

Need access? The same.

Need sabotage? ...

Need discretion?


Basically although the SR4 system seems alot faster than SR3, in the old game it was still necessary for the team to protect the decker, and physically infiltrate an enemy compund. Now the tecno or any decent hacker can simply hack the comlinks of the guards or vehicles outside, or via the matrix from the comfort of a hideout or just on the streets.

Cameras and turrets protecting facility? No need to locate a security computer, just hack the cameras and/or guns!

Now the character has been dumped, and I find we still miss the hacker abilities, despite the chance we now get to do alternative ways (sneaking, disgiuse, combat etc.).

So the question is: Is wireless hacking unbalanced? Are hackers etc. necessary for a shadowrunner and is there a way to keep em from taking all the GM time?

There is also the problem of difficulty - hacking should be dangerous and hard, but now with only a few dice (7-8) you can hack almost anything and only glitches will cause trouble unless there is active hacker security. And since tests are extended initial failure means nothing. And there is no longer any dumpshock, ICE burning you out and all those dangerous side effects that made hacking the domain of thrill-seeking partly unstable and anti-social hackers, and that most sensible (or cowardly) people stayed away from.

[Butterblume]

[Jack Kain]

Don't forget wandering IC's and enemy corp hackers. When my team did a run againts a corp factory. We had managed to aquire the floor plan as it wasn't to a high security a place. We couldn't hack from the outside the wireless network didn't exend beyond the building.
So my street samurai went into the computer control room and shot each of the four hackers there that night with stick and shock. Took out the primary matrix defense in the meat world. Our hacker and technomacner reeked havoc with there system. We blew up a crap load of equipment then left. No deaths or injuries beyond stun.

[FriendoftheDork]

First of all I'm not a GM. Secondly, although hardwired is possible, is it common? Isn't wireless the new craze that every corp wants?

Extended tests could be limited, but usually only to the dice pool. Easy still unless you suck.

corp hackers seems like the only real good protection. In our game the only place we failed to infiltrate was a groceries delivery warehouse that was protected by an off-location corp hacker and some ice. After the hacker had a fight with the ice, the corp hacker was alerted and the alarm went off, and then we were gone!

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Fortune]

[Cain]

What he means is that Trace-and-Burn and Psychotropic IC don't [currently] exist. There's no way to cause damage to a commlink, only to an icon or decker; and there's no rules to affect someone's mind short of a sadistic GM saddling someone with the Scorched flaw.

[redwulf25_ci]

[Jack Kain]

Corps want wireless so they can access there computer from anyware in the building. Not from down the street.

You also underestimate difficulty,

If you want to actually do some damage in a corp's system you need admin access, which +6 to the threshold.

A system 5, fire 5, would have a threshold of 16 to get admin access. When hacking on the fly, every time the hacker makes a check the computer makes a check to beat his stealth.
Its a little known fact that extended tests can be limited to a number of rolls equal to your skill.


Even when the hacker breaks into the system and gains admin access, corp hackers and wandering IC's can easily spot him.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[RunnerPaul]

[FriendoftheDork]

Interesting guys... I need some time to read and think, but it may be that we or the GM has overlooked a few things...

That thing about dumpshock was the fact that hackers in AR are not affected by it, only those in hot sim. Right? Not being hot means you lose out on +2 to the check, but it may be worth the safety. If you fail to hack there is usually very little consequence (except possibly blowing the mission by alerting security).

jack you don't always need to hack on the fly. And if you need 16 hits, that's hardly extreme. Limiting number of rolls to your skill (i said dice pool but that can't be right) is an optional rule. And even so, 5 tries with skill 5, ability (or program)6, and lets say +2 for being a technomancer. 13 dice=3 hits, thus only one hot away from automatically succeeding. Average would be total 20 hits, well exceeding 16.

And if you throw in 3-4 dice of edge as well, making you reroll about half your hits for more potential hits... ok I'm no probability mathematician but it's no brainer that this is not very hard for a focused starting hacker or techie.

[Lord Ben]

[Lord Ben]

IMHO, the biggest mistake new people make when designing wireless security is that they don't put devices on the subscription list.

----------------------------------
LINKING AND SUBSCRIBING
Now, just because all of your devices can talk to other devices doesn’t mean that they will. For simplicity, privacy, and security, you may confi gure your devices so that they only interact with another specific device (usually your commlink, as your PAN’s hub) or a specific network (your PAN). Th is prevents confusion between users (am I accessing my guncam or yours?) and also off ers a degree of protection from snoopers and hackers. Rather than allowing any stranger access to all of your electronics, anyone that wants to interact with your PAN must connect to your commlink first
----------------------------------

Have a facility with wireless access? The cameras, doors, etc are all subscribed to other things which are subscribed to others, etc in a giant pyramid fashion. Agents monitor logs for changes and constantly report back to the next level. At some point a guy with 3 computer 3 electronic warfare (and 4 data search with a specialization in free porno) using AR instead of full submersion monitors them for changes and to put some human AI into it.

Then you can't "hack" into a device without hacking the node that controls it (or possibly the node that controls that). The best you can do is spoof a command to the camera to turn the other direction. But then it's in the log of the camera to turn one way, but the logs don't match with the log of commands given. Perhaps every 5 minutes the logs are compared for discrepancies? Then the change is reported to a hacker who'll look into it. Maybe ASAP in hot sim with agents riding shotgun, maybe after his lunch break is up.

With the right datachecks and comparing the right logs it's VERY hard for a hacker to "hack into a door and open it" without risking a bust on the whole mission.

I work in a datacenter and reduntant systems checks is a big part of my job. Maybe sometime I'll write up a sample building with various methods of physical entry and how the site would be configured.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Lord Ben]

Hacking via "on the fly" or "probing the target" looks for exploits in the programming or other "mistakes" that give it an exploit allowing it effective admin level access. It's still not an administrator account, it just allows you to do what an administrator does.

So IC "runs into" a hacker in a hallway and finds out that it's not a real adminstrator but some hacker who used some RPC Overflow error to issue admin level commands. System goes on alert, etc.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Jack Kain]

[Lord Ben]

It's specifically unauthorized access:

Exploit (Hacking)
Exploit programs are constantly-evolving hacker tools specifi
cally designed to take advantage of security fl aws and weaknesses
so that a hacker can gain unauthorized access to a node.
Exploit programs are used for hacking in without authorized access
(p. 221).

[GrinderTheTroll]

[Jack Kain]

Its the scan program opposed by the targets stealth.

[GrinderTheTroll]

[yesman]

I second the sentiment that hacking doesn't take any more time than astral recon does. It's just that people aren't used to it happening on the fly.

[Jack Kain]