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> Homemade Negative Qualities, Yours, mine, ours?
bibliophile20
post Feb 3 2007, 10:29 PM
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QUOTE (ShadowDragon8685)
QUOTE
15 BP: Young children, i.e. preteens; a character that is living a Hospitalized lifestyle on your tab (because you’re such great chummers!) for a period of at least one year (look at it this way: you’ll definitely have a loyalty rating 6 contact when he’s out).


That's going to be one hell of a tab.

Oh, hehe... Perhaps for a period of six months or so? I had forgotten how much the hospitalized lifestyle costs.
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bibliophile20
post Feb 3 2007, 11:00 PM
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Here, I thought of this when I was tweaking the Dependent Quality above:

Shallow End of the Gene Pool:
Bonus: 10-15-20-25-30-35 BP
You’re not stupid… just “challenged” as they like to say, but whatever it is, the light of intelligence does not even glimmer in your eyes, and the speed of your thoughts can sometimes be outdistanced by an ambitious snail. If you open a wikitionary for the definition of “dim-witted” you’d see a holo of yourself there.
Characters with this Quality suffer a permanent reduction of their Attributes; for each level, the character’s maximum Reaction, Logic or Intuition can be reduced by 1 to a maximum of 3 levels. Additionally, the character suffers a 50% Karma cost increase for skills linked with that attribute, i.e. a character with a decrease of 1 or 2 in Logic would suffer a 150% or 200% increase respectively in Karma costs for Academic Knowledge, Professional Knowledge or a Mechanic skill.
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ornot
post Feb 3 2007, 11:05 PM
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QUOTE (ElFenrir)
QUOTE
The fact that buying a language to 6 cost 12BP made me think that bilingual ought to be 10BP too.



Knowledge skills and languages are pulled from the pool of Knowledge Skill points as far as I know, which are the typical Int+Logx3 free points, and are purchased on a 1 for 1 basis. Languages only cost 1 BP per level last i checked, and cost 6 of the free BP to max out. Knowledges and languages only start costing 2 BPs per point after you go over the limit of free knowledges, and most characters ive seen usually run from 18-21 Knowledge/Language points. You can get 2 languages at 4(well and solidly fluent) for only 8. While Languages are counted seperate from Knowledges, you still spend your initial Knowledge points on them, as demonstrated in SR4.

So perhaps 5 BPs MIGHT be more worth it. Like a flaw should be a flaw, an edge should be an edge, and 10 BPs for a free language is actually COSTING the player 4 points. Theyre only netting a base 1 for the 5 point one, but perhaps if you made it in levels(5,10,15,20 for MultiLingual), the savings increase, making it worthwhile, for say, a Face character.

However, the other difficult thing about a Language positive quality, is that most character are considered 'fluent' at around a 3 or 4. I think only teachers or very high level diplomats would have 6s in the language, and government translators could i think even have a 5 under these new rules, making the BP cost for the edge tricky. I'd lower it to perhaps 3 BPs per level, even, for this reason.

Like Negative Qualities must be balance, for a Positive Quality, i'd look at it and ask myself, 'would i have ANY character that i can take this with?' If the answer is no, i'd look at it again and tweak it.

Yes you do get free skillpoints equal to (int+log)*3, and you may spend those on languages or knowledge skills. However, those are not BPs, and to buy a language to native levels (6) with BPs costs 12BP. As I said, how useful actually being a native speaker of a language actually is, is debatable, hence I could argue for a lower cost, but to let it go for 5BPs? that's not even a rating 3 language skill, which with an average intuition (3) will net you two hits on average; enough for basic conversation perhaps, but hardly the native fluency of someone raised with the language.

I agree that +ve qualities should be balanced, and that is why I suggested the "natural linguist" quality. Let us say for 5BP it halves the BP and karma costs of increasing languages. Worthwhile if you want to be well versed in a number of languages, but compared to a second native language with bilingual at 10BP (I might be persuaded to drop it to 7BP), you would need to spend 11BP (5BP for the quality, a further 6BP for rating 6 to qualify as a native speaker).
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Moon-Hawk
post Feb 5 2007, 03:15 PM
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QUOTE (Omer Joel)
Day Job
Bonus: 5, 10, 15 or 20 BPs
The character has a "real" job besides shadowrunning, which burdens him with responsibilitis and robs away a portion of his time. However, such a job also confers some advantages - the job arns te character some nuyen, it could serve as a cover for shadow-activity, it might be helpful for money-laundering, and it might give the character a good place to meet new contacts.

CODE

BP Value   Monthly Salary   Weekly Hours
5           1,000           10 hours
10          2,500           20 hours
15          5,000           40 hours
20         10,000           60 hours

If the salary and the hours scale together, then why does the BP cost need to scale as well? I mean, the 20 point version eats up 6 times as much of your free time, earns you ten times as much money, AND gives you tons of free BP?
I know you're porting this from old editions, but I had problems with the old edition version, too. True, the "flaw" eats up some free time, but it also gives you free money.
Also, this flaw is trivially easy to get rid of: "I quit". There's nothing short of GM-smackdown to stop someone from taking a 20 point flaw, sitting down at the first session, and saying "I quit my job." Hooray, 20 free BP. Obviously no GM will stand for this, but it's still an indicator that something's not quite right. (True, you could sit down at the first session and say "I shoot <my Dependent flaw> in the head", but that strikes me as a slightly different situation) Considering the marketable skills that most Shadowrunners have, it's only slightly more difficult for them to get a day job, if they want one. (legal or not)

IMG, I've been treating "day job" as a neutral quality that neither gives nor costs BP. I take into account what they're doing, their SIN status (or quality of fake), their skills, and the amount of time they're willing to devote to it, and then compare it to the costs of low or medium lifestyle and assign them an income. If they don't like it, they can quit. If they actually want to put some RP-time into their day job and try to get a promotion or something, fine. I have no problem awarding good RPing.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Feb 5 2007, 03:27 PM
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Remember, the DM is allowed to give you a different 20-point flaw if you try those shennanigans.

So maybe as they're clearing out your desk, they find evidence of your criminal deeds, and you can replace a 20 point flaw (Day Job) with another 20 point (Criminal SIN) flaw. :)

Also, Hospitalization is 500 :nuyen: per day. That's 30,000 a year.
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lorechaser
post Feb 5 2007, 08:33 PM
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QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
If they actually want to put some RP-time into their day job and try to get a promotion or something, fine. I have no problem awarding good RPing.

"Sheesh Moon-Hawk, come *on* already. The Star is on the way!"
"Hang on, hang on. I just found an old copy of MT Office Productivitiy Tools that I haven't looked at - I need to read up on VHLookup. There's this one spreadsheet at work that's really killing me...."


"Moon-Hawk, can we just do a run? Seriously?"
"Sorry man. Tomorrow I have 3 meets with my HR team to discuss my promotion, and then I have to cross-check all our files to be sure we're HR 74 compliant. I'll roll my Log+Accounting skill first, then I'll have to make 4 bod+accounting rolls to be sure I don't fall asleep. Then, after that, I've got a PTA meeting to go to...."

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Moon-Hawk
post Feb 5 2007, 08:36 PM
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Yes, all that stuff would definitely be a pain. But you get money for it.
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cetiah
post Feb 5 2007, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE (lorechaser)
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Feb 5 2007, 09:15 AM)
If they actually want to put some RP-time into their day job and try to get a promotion or something, fine.  I have no problem awarding good RPing.

"Sheesh Moon-Hawk, come *on* already. The Star is on the way!"
"Hang on, hang on. I just found an old copy of MT Office Productivitiy Tools that I haven't looked at - I need to read up on VHLookup. There's this one spreadsheet at work that's really killing me...."


"Moon-Hawk, can we just do a run? Seriously?"
"Sorry man. Tomorrow I have 3 meets with my HR team to discuss my promotion, and then I have to cross-check all our files to be sure we're HR 74 compliant. I'll roll my Log+Accounting skill first, then I'll have to make 4 bod+accounting rolls to be sure I don't fall asleep. Then, after that, I've got a PTA meeting to go to...."

That's wicked cool. :)

P.S. You can run into this situation with *anything*, not just day jobs. The most obvious is maintenence and loyalty for contacts, and no one seems to have (much of) a problem with that.
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BookWyrm
post Feb 5 2007, 09:42 PM
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Let me try something....

Comedic Relief/Non-Relief
This can go either way: as a Positive Quality, the character can make the right kind of joke at the right time, amusing to everyone. As a Negative Quality, the joke makes those hearing it groan in mock pain.

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Nasrudith
post Feb 5 2007, 10:19 PM
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QUOTE (lorechaser @ Feb 5 2007, 03:33 PM)
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Feb 5 2007, 09:15 AM)
If they actually want to put some RP-time into their day job and try to get a promotion or something, fine.  I have no problem awarding good RPing.

"Sheesh Moon-Hawk, come *on* already. The Star is on the way!"
"Hang on, hang on. I just found an old copy of MT Office Productivitiy Tools that I haven't looked at - I need to read up on VHLookup. There's this one spreadsheet at work that's really killing me...."


"Moon-Hawk, can we just do a run? Seriously?"
"Sorry man. Tomorrow I have 3 meets with my HR team to discuss my promotion, and then I have to cross-check all our files to be sure we're HR 74 compliant. I'll roll my Log+Accounting skill first, then I'll have to make 4 bod+accounting rolls to be sure I don't fall asleep. Then, after that, I've got a PTA meeting to go to...."

Personally I don't like how the day job's pay doesn't scale at all with the skills. It does not matter if your a mentally retarded troll or an elite 7 skill theoretical physicist with nine logic. A pay scaling job would lose the flaw aspect a bit though and raise the question of "why are you risking your hoop running in the first place? if they are already getting enough for a high lifestyle in the first place."
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Grinder
post Feb 5 2007, 10:30 PM
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I don't think that a character can work 60 hours a week and work as a runner too.
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lorechaser
post Feb 5 2007, 11:07 PM
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QUOTE (BookWyrm)
Let me try something....

Comedic Relief/Non-Relief
This can go either way: as a Positive Quality, the character can make the right kind of joke at the right time, amusing to everyone. As a Negative Quality, the joke makes those hearing it groan in mock pain.

I'm assuming you can take both at the same time?
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Kyoto Kid
post Feb 6 2007, 01:42 AM
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QUOTE (Omer Joel)
Phobia
Bonus: 5 to 20 BPs
Something scares the hell out of the character - a specific thing or condition triggers a deep-seated fear in him. The value of this quality depends on two factors. First, decide whether the triggering condition is Uncommon (2 BP) or Common (7 BP). Then decide who severe is this phobia: Mild (3 BP), Moderate (8 BP) or Severe (13 BP).

Uncommon triggers are conditions which are relatively rare in the local area, such as specific sounds or smlls.

Common triggers are conditions commonly encountered in the local area, such as sunlight, magic, insects, the outdoors and crowds.

A Mild phobia applies a -1 dice pool DM to all of the character's actions (except for resistance tests) as long as the character is in presence of the triggering condition.

A Moderate phobia applies a -2 dice pool DM to all of the character's actions (except for resistance tests) as long as the character is in presence of the triggering condition. In addition, the character will try his best to avoid thiscondition; he will have to pass a Composure (2) test in order to force himself to confront it.

A Severe phobia causes the character to flee, or if this is not possible, to collapse in terror when exposed to the triggering condition, unless he passes a successfu Composure (4) test. If the test is sucessful, the character still suffers a -2 dice pool DM to all of the character's actions (except for resistance tests) as long as the character is in presence of the triggering condition.

...This is one that should have been included all along in IMO. I don't know why it was omitted it from the BBB.

Now for my shot:

Childlike Nature
Bonus -10 BP

The character comes off being much younger than they really are. She frequently is not taken seriously, picked on, and basically treated as someone who is underage. The character finds it difficult getting into usual runner haunts like clubs, bars, & the like (even with proper ID) and also has a hard time buying certain gear and items off the street (such as weapons, ammo, armour, drugs, smokes, beer etc.). For such purchases she usually has to go through her own fixer or a teammate who looks old enough. In addition, all Intimidation, Leadership, and Negotiation tests have a threshold of + 2 in addition to normal modifiers.
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BookWyrm
post Feb 9 2007, 12:26 AM
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QUOTE (lorechaser)
QUOTE (BookWyrm @ Feb 5 2007, 03:42 PM)
Let me try something....

Comedic Relief/Non-Relief
This can go either way: as a Positive Quality, the character can make the right kind of joke at the right time, amusing to everyone. As a Negative Quality, the joke makes those hearing it groan in mock pain.

I'm assuming you can take both at the same time?

No. You purchase either, not both.

If you've ever seen the cartoon Teen Titans, think Beast Boy's quips. That's the Negative Quality version.
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Kyoto Kid
post Feb 9 2007, 01:07 AM
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...by the same token, if you think of think of Hank McCoy (AKA the Beast from Marvel's X-Men) you have the positive version.
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lorechaser
post Feb 19 2007, 03:33 PM
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Ponderous (5/10 pt negative qual):

Whether it takes you a minute to get up to speed, or you just can't be bothered to hustle anywhere, you're more like the tortoise than the hare.

The 5 point version reduces your running rate to 2/3 normal for your metatype (16 for humans, 14 for dwarves, 23 for trolls). The 10 point version also reduces your walking rate (8/5/10).

Pack Rat's Pockets (5 point positive quality)

You are forever picking up and storing minor items in your pockets, bags and pretty much anywhere you can.

Any time you need a non-combat item that costs less than 20 nuyen, you can find it in one of your pockets. If the GM rules that the item is particularly uncommon, or you are unlikely to have it, you must roll at least one success on an Edge test.

If you spend a point of Edge, the limit is increased to 50 nuyen, as you just so happened to pick up a white noise generator that you saw in a trash can last week....

The GM is free to limit the use of this power, and the items should never be used to simply make a profit for the character, except in rare circumstances.

Luck (10-30 point positive quality)

You were born under a lucky star, got the right genes, or just happen to fall the right way.

You have a special attribute that others don't - Luck, which is ranked 1-3 (10 points per point of Luck). Once per game session, you or the GM may call for a Luck roll. If successful, something good happens, as appropriate to the situation. You may state, generally, what you'd like to occur, but the Finger of Fate is Fickle. You can't always get what you want, but sometimes, you get what you need.

This should never be a game altering event, but should be something that lets your character come out just a little bit ahead. Maybe he noticed that the data file you just stole was only half the file. Maybe he happened to stumble at just the right time, and the troll behind him was the one that took the first shot. Maybe he was the one that saw the solid gold lighter on the wageslave's desk.


Golden Boy (10-30 point positive quality).

The world is your mollusck of choice. When everyone else's gun is jamming, yours is firing flawlessly. When the other mages can't remember the words to a simple manabolt, you're phrasing yours in euclidian poetry. Whatever it is, you just don't mess up as often.

Pick a particular category of rolls (Combat, Social, Magic, Hacking, etc). Your need one more 1 to glitch per point of this quality (it is effectively Gremlins in reverse).


This last one is a big funky, but I like it. I'm not sure it's balanced or not, though.

Even-keeled (0 point quality).

Great things just don't seem to happen to you. Then again, tragedy seems to give you a miss as well. You're just, well, even.

Any critical glitch you roll is automatically converted to a normal glitch. However, any time you spend Edge before a roll, you don't reroll sixes. And if you spend Edge to reroll failures, you only succeed on a roll of 6, rather than 5 or 6.
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BookWyrm
post Mar 17 2007, 05:02 PM
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oops, sorry. This was a mispost.
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BookWyrm
post Mar 17 2007, 05:03 PM
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QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
...by the same token, if you think of think of Hank McCoy (AKA the Beast from Marvel's X-Men) you have the positive version.

Good call, Kyoto. ;)
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Kyoto Kid
post Mar 17 2007, 06:09 PM
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QUOTE (Butterblume)
Dain Bramage :rotfl: Cool name, reminds me of the munchkin card game.
But I think 15 BP is to much.

I would actually work it this way.

Dain Bramage (15 pts): Whether you used too many BTL's, burned your brain out on Black IC, or just never quite kept up with the kids, you just aren't as quick as the average bear.

...the character takes a -1 penalty on initiative checks (cumulative with other modifiers)
...the character can never spend Edge to go first in a round or to gain extra init passes.
...the character takes -1 to all logic based skill tests. (including knowledge skills with Logic as a component of the DP)
...the character has poor short term memory and must make memory tests more often ("what was that Johnson's comm code again?").
...the character cannot default to logic attribute.
...The character must 1.5 x BP/karma to learn/improve logic based skills.

In a way, I see it as a slightly toned down version of Uneducated that could have of been the result from a number of cases such as those mentioned above and repeated physical trauma to the head (such as the classic "punch drunk" boxer).
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Kyoto Kid
post Mar 19 2007, 04:08 PM
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...another one for thought

Infirm (the old way) Physical -5 ,-10, -15, -20, -25

For each level of this quality the character's unaugmented racial max for physical attributes is lowered by 1. Augmented caps are adjusted accordingly. This quality is not compatable with Exceptional Attribute.

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Demon_Bob
post Apr 24 2007, 02:49 AM
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QUOTE (SoyKaf Adict)
Tweaked: 5 BP

The character in question is not insane, not crazy, not odd in anyway... Until he decides something's worth shootin' and that's everything. Some call it trigger happy, some call it jumpy... But it's really just labeled Wired Reflexes without the benefit of aiming. Tweaked characters make cool diplomatic situations turn into heated bullet-filled debates. Any time there's a stand-off, a sound mistaken for a guard on a stealth mission, or the shoot-first-ask-questions-later interrogation method applies... The Tweaked character makes smooth situations turn into sandpaper and is almost always the first to pull for his gun, doesn't mean he shoots it off first though. Composure Test Logic + Willpower(4) will keep him from doing something TOO stupid. -5 to social dice pool when trying to calm tensions between parties and the character is present.

(Heh... Good luck with this one. You might think that though Tweaked and Greenhorn Hopeful cost the same BP they're not costing appropriately, it's because the calming of tension is very specified, the social penalty applies for ALL rolls where the Greenhorn can muck things up while being amidst conversation. That's the difference.)

Big Mouth Small Gun: 10/15 BP

The big mouth is a dying breed... And there's a reason... They like to talk drek, and then it comes back at them in the form of a lot of sharp things and bullets. Not only do they talk drek but ALL of this clan claim the wondrous ability to not be intimidating at all. This character is classified as Unaware for all Intimidation rolls, and is labeled as being under Rat's teachings when a fight turns out. The character must use his first initiative action to find cover and stay there. They make the same willpower test but the threshold is 3 + each combatant to even think about shooting. At 15 BP the drek talk must happen at every opportunity that presents itself, and the character is always considered Assisting in a team roll when another character uses intimidation, roll 1d6 on a 1-3 he critically glitches for his assistance. Followers of Rat that take this pay either 5 or 10 BP respectively.

Where I like the discription of these Negative qualities. Any runner having them would soon find himself without a team, or killed by it.
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Demon_Bob
post Apr 24 2007, 03:17 AM
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Was wondering what you all thought of these?


Positive

10ea - Ace - +1 die to all piloting skill tests per level.

5 - College Education – Removes Default penalty for Academic Knowledge Skills

5 ea– Daredevil - Gives +1 dice for use in edge related tests that can only be used in a Heroically risky action

10ea – Dragon Blood - Negates total spell sustaining penalties by 1 per 10 points. So at 20 points sustaining 1 spell has a -0 die penalty to all actions; Sustaining 2 spells has a- 2 die penalty. As a person’s blood & body has one or more exotic compounds that make them inherently more magical, Talismongers may want some of their body parts for use in creating Foci.

5 - Linguist – ½ costs to buy or improve language skills

5 ea - Good Reputation - +1 die per level on all social Tests. Character must have lived in the area for a number of months equal to the level of her reputation to receive the full benefit from it.

10- Pirate Family – You have an extended group of friends throughout many cities, that you can try to look up for aid. These friends, however, may also
appear and ask for help at otherwise inopportune times. Player needs to
describe nature of family and how he acquired them. (ex. They were once members of my squad back when I was in the military. All the drek we went experienced together created a lasting bond.)

5- School of Hard Knocks – Removes street penalty for Street Knowledge skills.

5- Sense of Direction – Character always knows which way is north. Adds +1 die for Navigation tests.

10- ea Spike Resistance - +1 die per level to resist Black IC, Dump Shock, ect.

5- Trade School Education – Removes default penalty for either Mechanical or Electrical skill group.

Negative

10 + Amnesia – Doesn’t mean that you can’t write a background just that you can’t Remember it. However, if you want to take this and let “Evil GM” write your background go ahead.

5= Color Blind - -2 die whenever a test is used where coloration is important. Can not differentiate between the different types of camouflage clothing.

5+ Combat Monster - Composure Test (3) to withdraw from battle.

??+ Deaf – I have no idea how much this should cost, or what it should all entail. At the least some negative modifiers to perception, social skills, and spoken language tests.

10+ Distinctive Features - Character stands out from the crowd and receives a - 2 die modifier to disguise and shadowing tests, as well as a +2 die modifier to be followed and remembered.

20+ Flashbacks – Composure Test (3) whenever exposed to flashback trigger. Triggering condition must be frequent enough to appear at least once per game session. During Flashbacks character is incapacitated for (2*net failures) in combat turns.

5+ Night Blind – Increases Partial light penalties by 2.

5+ One Eye – Lack of depth perception imposes a -2 die modifier on all ranged tests.

??+ Phobias – Buy like Allergies.
Mild imposes a -2 die penalty to all tests while exposed to fear.
Moderate requires a Composure Test (2) to remain in vicinity of object causing fear, and -4 die to all tests except Athletics group while phobic condition exists.
Severe requires a Composure Test (3) to not run away screaming, and -6 die to all tests except for those skills in the Athletics Group.

?? +- Unknown – Would defiantly make your Character’s Life more interesting.
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Luddite
post Apr 24 2007, 04:05 AM
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How about Unknown Enemy, which I am stealing from GURPS. In return for an extra 5BP added to the total of your Hunted flaw the character has no idea who it is that wants to kill him, in fact he has no IC knowledge of it at all.
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DTFarstar
post Jun 12 2007, 03:15 AM
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I'm about to play a character who is blind in a homebrew Shadowrun game. I was just wondering what you guys thought about that as a negative quality and how much points and such. A very quick synopsis is he is a mage who, with some colleagues attempted to force their way through the outside of the ozone layer and into space. Most of the rest died, but he just went blind and a little crazy. When he went out a little he ripped out his own eyes and as a result well... he's blind. He's obesessed with regaining his former power and as such refuses to replace his eyes with tech. So, he works in the astral or not at all. Since there is a semi-solution to his blindness it should be worse less, but constantly having to be astrally active is a pretty bad thing as well.

I'm thinking about combining this with Distinctive Style and having his orbital sockets fill with some color emanation, maybe a manifestation of his astral eyes or something, as his distinction, along with the not having eyes of course. It could be covered up, but only really by turning off astral sight, which as mentioned is bad for him.

Anyway, just wanted some feedback on this. I would appreciate it.


Chris
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Demon_Bob
post Jun 12 2007, 03:33 AM
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QUOTE (DTFarstar @ Jun 11 2007, 09:15 PM)
I'm about to play a character who is blind in a homebrew Shadowrun game.

I'm thinking about having his orbital sockets fill with some color emanation.

Blindness for mages that could see Astrally in 3rd was worth 2. The 4th Ed Negative Qualities are about 5 * the 3rd Ed. Flaws so I would say 10 points.

You could do it as Shamanistic Mask effect when casting spells. Unfortunately, it is not worth any points.

Distinctive style might be always wears white gauze bandage over eyes, works without eye covering, or just the badly mismatched color-blind clothing thing.

Was just wondering why he decided not to go for cloned eyes?
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