Shadowrun webcomic, I just started one... Options

[Blade]

Hoi chums,

I just started some kind of Shadowrun webcomic/graphic novel. There are only two pages for now, made mostly to give the idea a try.

I kinda like what I did, so I might try to turn it into a real webcomic with regular updates if people like it, and if I've got enough time.

Anyways, the two first pages are here and here (you can find the first version of the first page here)

I'm still trying to find the exact style so I'm open to suggestions and constructive criticism. Just don't bother with the text, it's just a mere placeholder for now.

I hope you like it.

[2bit]

that first one has a cool look to it. Pretty good sense of visual storytelling too. Page 2 panels don't all seem to be in the right order though.
I like the image filter you chose, and the amount of black you're using. Page 2 isn't all that readable though. I'm unable to figure out what the setting is from the first and second frame.

Cropping close on these photos sets us up for a personal, introspective story, which the text is supporting. so kudos there. I hope you're experienced enough to know when to back out of these tight shots though.
I'm also wondering what your viz plan is for things like metahumans, cyber, etc.

[lorechaser]

Page 1 is far better than page 2, to me.

Although the shadow on page 1 struck me a horribly out of style, since it's very generic.

[Blade]

Yeah, I got it wrong with the shadow, but I don't have the original picture, so I'd have to do it once again...

Page 1 looks better mostly because the original image made it easier to get the desired effect. It took a lot longer to tweak the pictures for page 2 than for page 1... Now I know that I'd have to be really careful about the lighting when shooting the pictures.

For metas, cyber, matrix and magic, I'll have to spend more time editing the pictures... But thanks to the way the image is filtered, it isn't too hard to get a convincing picture.

The first try on page 3 is now uploaded. There are many thing that I'm not happy with, but I'd like to get your opinion on this one too.

I'll spend some time to work out how to get the right atmosphere on every panel with different types of pictures/lighting and hopefully I'll be able to start the real production.

[2bit]

link goes to page 2 again :) Guessing that page 3 is the same link with the number "3" substituted, though. . . heh, there you backed out. ok, not much to this page, but the idea is there. Ok, my gut reaction is that your story's worth a look. :) I'd come back to it.

[Fygg Nuuton]

I think the font and such really detracts from the comic as a whole.

EDIT: My bad, sorry.

[Blade]

Thanks 2bit. I fixed the link. ;)

The font is one of the things I'll have to check. I didn't feel like spending hours and hours looking for fonts before even trying to see what I could manage to do.

[lorechaser]

Between page 1 and page 2, you dropped the filtered look somewhat - page 1 has that great sort of painted look. Page 2 and 3 are a much more hard edged, printed feel. I prefer the shimmery, personally, but either 2 and 3 should match 1, or 1 should match 2 and 3.

Is the matrix image on page 2 a place holder? If not, I'd really consider doing something else for it. It breaks the feel entirely.

Overall, though, it's pretty spiffy.

Oh, and one minor personal issue. Every time I see "Hoi, chum" my brain screams "IT'S CHUMMER!" ;)

[2bit]

oh c'mon. . . chummer is soooo 2050. :cyber:

[Blade]

The real problem is that it's not a single filter that I can apply to every image. It's a mix of different filters, coloration and contrast settings (mostly) that has to be applied differently on each picture depending on the colors and lighting...

I'm now trying to get closer to the look of the first page which is also my favorite.
For now, I ended up with this and this which may be closer to it, but not quite the same thing. (I think I overdid it)

Sadly (and quite stupidly), I lost the original pictures of page 2, so I can't change the painted/printed feel but I'll try to get something closer to page 1 than page 2.

About the Matrix image, I'll consider switching to something else.

EDIT : As some professionals may lurk here, please note that I'm no professional and I don't pretend to be one. I don't know much about photography, except the basics about lightning, and I'm not really used to taking pictures either. I know how to use an image editing tool but I'm no graphic artist, and I know nearly nothing about working with digital art. (To put it in a SR4 way, I've got rating 2 Computer (Edit) Skill, but no Art skill)

[deek]

Just curious...

So your idea is to create a web comic based off of your photo's or other stuff you can find...as opposed to drawing stuff? I guess I have never seen anything like that and when I read "web comic", I am used to hand or computer drawings...just kinda took me by surprise, I suppose.

My opinion, the script is going to make or break your project. I definitely think there is a following to support your work. And if the story is good, I don't think you have to worry about the art as much...as that naturally progresses as you gain experience. So, focusing on the script, I was not really hooked in the first three pages...I am sure it could grow on me, but a good hook would have me wanting more, as opposed to me currently just feeling a bit of "wait and see" what happens.

As someone that reads a decent amount of web comics, I also found it difficult to follow the conversation from cell to cell...didn't know if I was supposed to be going to the right or straight down...so that added confusion gave me a negative feel.

I also agree FN, the font needs some work, but I understand wanting to wait. And if you take a look at the evolution of about any web comic...the styles and stuff do change over time...so if you can stick to putting one out every week or two to start, just see where it takes off to and change stuff as you go.

[DeadNeon]

I like it greatly, and eagerly await more.

At times of grandeur, i consider myself a writer. If you ever need a hand with dialogue, drop me a line.

[Blade]

Thanks for your comments

@deek : I guess you could call it a "webgraphic novel". I can't draw good enough for a comic, so I have to stick with modified pictures. I'll try to stick with my own pictures to avoid copyright issues.

I'm aware that the scenario and the script are really important parts, but I'm more used to dealing with these than with graphics issues. That's why I want to start on solid graphic grounds. Besides, if the story is what hooks you to the webcomic, the art is what gets your attention first. If it isn't good enough, people won't read more than two pages.

I had a hard time figuring the layout of the pages but I thought the reading was clear enough (reading the lines from up to down, and left to right if two textboxes are on the same level)... It seems that it wasn't. I'll try moving things around.

As I said, I want to be comfortable with the overall style before starting a regular production. It's sure that it'll change over time, but I'd like to have at least the same overall aspect on each page. That's why I'm still experimenting with the first 3 pages.

@DeadNeon : Thanks for the offer. It could be interesting, especially since English isn't my mother tongue.

[2bit]

You're approaching it in exactly the right way. Despite what Deek says about story, coming up with a compelling visual style is paramount, and if yours is poor, the reader won't look long enough to judge the story. Hopefully yours remains feasible. Good luck!

[Blade]

I've discovered that the smaller size of the panels on page 2 had an impact on the overall feeling of difference between this page and the first. So I replaced some images with larger one and removed the panels I didn't like... The drawback is that it feels a bit empty now and that it may be even harder to understand. I think I should think more clearly about the layout of a page before starting shooting the pictures.

I toyed a bit more with page 2 and 3 to get something closer to page 1. It led to :

http://membres.lycos.fr/elpoco/page2_3.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/elpoco/page2_4.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/elpoco/page3_3.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/elpoco/page3_4.jpg

I think I'll have to restart page 2 from scratch since I've lost the original pictures (except for the fridge one) and the actual pictures don't exactly match the style of page 1.

[will_rj]

Great work !!

I have a suggestion that might be interesting. If you intend to rely on real photos for each cell, perhaps you could setup some sort of "photo query", asking for fellow DSers for specific images.

For example:

"So, i´ll need a smashed cigarrette with lipstick stains for page 25. anyone ?"

or " The next panel will picture a close up on some tire tracks in a very muddy terrain, anyone ?"

I would love to help, for example :-)

[eralston]

First, I must agree that both your technique and direction on this are good. By the end you should have one sleek and unique piece of media. My interest is raised by the story. It does seem like you will have more than money to drive your characters, which is a very good thing.

I had the same thought as Will about halfway through scrolling the topic. You might be able to acquire some material very quickly amongst contributors armed with digital cameras. High enough resolution camera-phone shots sent straight to your e-mail could make an expansive set of stock material for very little effort.

What other media do you have access to? Do you have an illustrator if you need one or a digital artist? Your use of graininess, as you observed, can convert most any image into the "style" of the comic. It's a brilliant piece of practical thinking that would enable you to make fairly low effort digital art look very uniform to the world.

I haven't been around here in a while started browsing in chronological order. I was pretty worried this was connected to the emo thread. Glad I was wrong.

[Mister Juan]

Hoi mate,
If you need any help, picture wise, I could probably provide: I'm a professional photographer, and I have my own studio stuff... so I can create quite intricate lighting senarios for different people / objects. Just PM me if you need something.

[Blade]

Thanks for your offers, I may indeed need some help for some tricky pictures (and maybe some CG art for Matrix scenes).

Here is the "final" version of the first three pages. There may be some minor changes (I'd particularly like feedback about the font) but I'm now comfortable enough to start working on the next pages.

http://membres.lycos.fr/elpoco/page1f.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/elpoco/page2f.jpg
http://membres.lycos.fr/elpoco/page3f.jpg

[Scandalous]

Im hooked. lets see more.

[lorechaser]

Very nice. All my prior concerns have been addressed. Keep makin' them! Once we get another couple, we can start in on the story critiques. ;)

[Blade]

Woohoo, 4th page done !

It was a challenging piece because it had night pictures with blue lightning and I was wondering if I'd be able to have it mix up with the "red-yellow" filter. It turned out that not only it was possible, but that it wasn't much trouble.

I think I also found the best conditions to take the pictures and how to filter them properly.

So, it's coming along nicely but I won't be uploading the new pages until January. I've got someone working on a website and I'm waiting for it to be online to start updating the comic. This also allows me to have pages ready to be uploaded even if I lack the time to do one.

[Serbitar]

Impressive. I like the Max Payne style very much.

[Kronk2]

I like the flicker noir kind of feel you have going on here. going to be interesting to see how you handle combat when it happens.

[Dr_Dro]

I like the style, and the story hasn't started as of yet, so I can't say. But I must say I did like the image of the (I guess he was a decker) on the screen - even though I would fair to guess that a decker would have a much much more intriguing image in the Matrix.

But I can't wait to see more