 FAQ Has Arrived, ... Get your 4th encounter here |
  |
 Dec 7 2006, 05:02 AM
Post
#26
|
|
|
Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 458 Joined: 12-April 04 From: Lacey, Washington Member No.: 6,237  |
Heck, if the SR developers were good for anything they'd have real jobs. :)
I'm probably going to ignore a good chunk of this stuff. Not so much because I don't like the rules calls, but because I don't want my book full of pencilled in annotations just to stay current. The game's good enough as written (not perfect, but best is the enemy of better). |
 |
 
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 05:09 AM
Post
#27
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
The clarifications on Hacking do help clear up some of the confusion around that topic, plus, it lets us peek into their developers' heads a little so whatever new material comes out in Emergence/Unwired doesn't completely blindside us. Plus, it's nice to have some freelancer opinions, like the warding a moving van question, officially sanctioned by the boss and on the main site, instead of tucked away in a freelancer's blog somewhere. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 7 2006, 05:11 AM
Post
#28
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 |
So can I ward my ballistic shield and carry it with me? I'm still not entirely sure the difference between a rock and a crate...
I just want my mundane some protection. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 05:22 AM
Post
#29
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
First I wanna ask a question before i comment on other people's comments.
#1. In the hacking section while talking about a daisy chain set up of nodes they said that you could skip to the end of the chain and just hack/spoof the last device. Wouldnt a commlink and a piece of cyber be a chain of nodes. If you were close enough and the cyber was wirelessly transmitting would it still have the protection programs of the commlink it was attached to like encryption or firewalls?? Counter comments: I kind of agree with Onetrikpony. I think adepts can be much better than street sams and if they are mystics who can have both adept and normal spells thats insane. I think cyberwear prices need to drop drastically or adept power costs need to sky rocket. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 05:26 AM
Post
#30
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
yesman im no expert but im up and have an opinion lol.
You use computer/hack + program to do stuff matrixy. If you lack computer/hack skills or they are low enough you could default and use Logic -1 + program. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 05:33 AM
Post
#31
|
|
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 13-April 06 Member No.: 8,459 |
For the most part, I am very happy with this.
I also couldn't stop laughing when I read this: "Why did you get rid of deckers? <strike>Because William Gibson hates Shadowrun</strike>." :rotfl: |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 05:35 AM
Post
#32
|
|||
|
Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 18-September 05 Member No.: 7,758 |
I don't think that's it; you default when you don't have the Program, so it can't be Program+Logic-1. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 7 2006, 05:39 AM
Post
#33
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
Oh wait i thought of another matri question lol.
Agents + programs. In regards to the programs on an agent affecting its response they said that the programs would only affect the agent if you were bothing using that program... #1. If you hacked your program code in order to make copies can you give your agent its own program so that is no longer using yours? #2. If your agent is another node can you switch out his active programs if your sharing one copy of a program? Or would you just dump all your programs on an agent and only activate the ones you need? Different subject. Agents and node response. They said that agents do affect the nodes they are in as far as response. #1 Is there a way to exploit this by making an agent whose only purpose is to bog down systems? Make an Agent named Sludge who runs like 50 programs and reduces the node's system to response 1 or whatever the lowest is. Would there be a point to that? You wouldnt be able to do anything in that node either would you. Wait you could offload Sludge onto a node and then the hacker would be unffected wouldnt he since he doesnt run off the system, He runs off the comm. So would it be helpful for hackers who like to do stuff manuelly (not sprites/agents)? |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 05:43 AM
Post
#34
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 500 Joined: 4-September 06 From: Salt Lake UT Member No.: 9,299 |
I find the FAQ helpfull too. There were some major matrix questions that have been sorted out; Firewall system rating responce degredation. I think those are good things. The firewall ruleing even helps my samurai character--indirectly. BTW, I'm not confused by the idea that responce is effected by programs loaded on an agent ; "Only if the agent is using those programs." It would help if they had used the word ACTIVE. i.e. programs loaded on an agent may degrade responce when those programs are ACTIVE. It just turns the agent into a complete additional hacker+comlink. The agent has to run and drop progs just the way a hacker does.
The FAQ should provide fixes for the game when there gaps in the rules, when there are common and relevent questions that have to be addressed (can firewall exceed system?), when published material turns out to be unballanced and game breaking. (Can agents load agents and thus spawn overwhelming hordes of agents?) Mostly when you throw out a part of the FAQ you'll end up making your own house rule to cover. As a player I'll follow any house rule or non standard ruleing the GM makes. He can kick out or add any rule he want's to make. I'm sitting at his table he runns the game. I won't lobby a game group to adopt house rules just because I don't like the setting or because my character is handycaped. As a player I try not to propose house rules. As a GM I have a specific ethos pertaining to house rules. I don't kick out rules just because I dont like em. If I make a house rule it will not contradict published rules. Idealy my house rules add options to the publised rules and do not violate the Flavor of the setting nor the "feel" of the established rules framework. I have to have limits. If most of the writers are magic twinks i am a cyber twink. I love cyber. My inclination is to completely disassociate cyberware and essence, making the only limitations on cyberware money, availability, and the volume of items that the developers can publish. That would be stupid. That would make cyber ware just like magic which is only limited by the unlimited volumes of wimsey that writers can concieve. It would make game play and character development unchallenging. Unchallenging = not fun. Why would I bother to try to break into MCT's magical initiate research lab when now i can go down to the Y and learn the higher mysteries from Rat Shaman Local 227? Their dues are only 15 bucks a month. And I get a free cupon for 40% off karma if I write them a song and do a dance. Now I'm making myself mad again. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 7 2006, 05:43 AM
Post
#35
|
|
|
Shooting Target Group: Members Posts: 1,711 Joined: 15-June 06 Member No.: 8,716 |
when you make tests you roll attribute+ skill.
When you dont have the skill you default and use attribute -1 programs = attributes computer/hacking = skills If you dont have the program there is no way you could do what your trying to do. If you were a technomancer and you had no attack program you could not go well i will use Hacking + logic -1 to attack that ice and then be like "think attack, think attack, think attack" |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 05:44 AM
Post
#36
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
The anchor of your ward can either be an object inside the warded area, or it can be and object that forms part of the boundary of the warded area. Ward anchors that form part of the boundary of the warded area, like the walls of a crate, or a van with a warded interior, can be portable because the space being warded never changes relative to the anchor. Using a ballistic shield would be trickier; it's not enough to say "Ward the volume of space 1 meter behind the shield, from the ground up to 2m above the ground" because then, the ballistic shield would have to be kept at the exact height above the ground and at the same angle to the ground as it was when the ward was erected, otherwise the ward would collapse. You also run into problems with the difference between "ground" and "floor". Create your ballistic shield ward on the second or third floor of a building, and suddenly, that floor becomes part of the definition of the warded area. It's not impossible to have mobile warded protection for mundanes, but it's not going to happen by putting it on a ballistic shield. A wheeled or tracked drone, with a 1m square standing platform on top could easily have that platform be the anchor for a ward, because the warded volume of space (in this case, anything between the platform and 2m above the platform) is not going to change with respect to the object the ward is anchored to. A key point to remember though: you couldn't stack one of these mobile warding platform drones on top of another one, because then you'd be introducing one area of warded space into another, which would cause one of the wards to collapse. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 7 2006, 05:52 AM
Post
#37
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 600 Joined: 31-August 05 Member No.: 7,659 |
You wouldn't have to be IN the warded area though, just behind it. They'd suffer the visibility penalties to casting at you.
Actually would they suffer vis penalties anyway? Especially if the shield is opaque. Or would the shield count as clothing? I'm making a new thread... |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 06:02 AM
Post
#38
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
Was PDF format totally out of the question?
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 06:08 AM
Post
#39
|
|||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
For the FAQ? I don't think that the SR FAQ's ever been PDF'ed. Not that it couldn't be, but what would that buy you? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 7 2006, 06:12 AM
Post
#40
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 932 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Orlando, Florida Member No.: 1,042 |
It would fit nicely with my other SR4 pdf documents.
|
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 06:32 AM
Post
#41
|
|||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 4-December 06 From: Chicago, IL Member No.: 10,193 |
I find it validating after my discussions about hacking cyberware. |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 7 2006, 06:42 AM
Post
#42
|
|||
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
yes you could bypass the firewall of the comlink of a device if your within direct transmission range of the device. but as some other part of the faq states, and have been echoed here on the forum for ages, most likely said device have a signal rating of 0. this means that you will have to be within 3 meters of the device your targeting. not a option in a combat situation. and outside of a combat situation it would mostly be a prank (or a way to create a distraction). as for magic vs cyber, its front loaded (cyber) vs long term power (magic). same old problem that have been around since first ed d&d... |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 7 2006, 06:46 AM
Post
#43
|
|||
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
if the shield is opaque better not have a partner standing to either side of you as said partner would then be a prime target for a indirect area combat spell, now that they fixed it so that only the primary target needs to be within line of sight. hmm, can said primary target be a point in space? |
||
|
|
|
||
|
Dec 7 2006, 07:03 AM
Post
#44
|
|
|
panda! Group: Members Posts: 10,331 Joined: 8-March 02 From: north of central europe Member No.: 2,242 |
hmm, after rereading the bits about agents it makes more sense, but could be better worded i think.
sounds like if the agent is using a program it counts the same as if the hacker used it. so if both the hacker and the agent uses(runs) a attack program it will count as two programs running on the comlink. uhoh. this means that a agent can have a internal response degradation (from maintaining to many running programs as its payload) and a external one because its payload also counts as running programs on whatever node its active on. sounds like one nasty balancing act... its as if a agent traveling from node to node is a memory construct of multiple interlocking programs. could it be that the agent behaves a bit like a virtual machine? and that the footprint of said virtual machine increase as more programs are loaded into it? makes sense in a way but it leaves agents double fucked (if i can be so direct). still its a effective deterrent against the agent swarm tactic as each agent counts as a program and each program they have loaded counts as one. so if one have 3 agents loaded with attack your looking at 6 programs running! at least it proves that a corp office node is a different beast from your average comlink. the number of agents and the programs they would deploy on average would sink a comlinks node to 0 in a instant... |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 07:20 AM
Post
#45
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 500 Joined: 4-September 06 From: Salt Lake UT Member No.: 9,299 |
Front loaded my butt.
When is cyber front loaded when you face a STARTING LEVEL mage with an invisability spell that you can't bypass with anything other than hearing or an ultrasound sensor A sprit which In previous versions you had to fight with will but which, Im given to understand, in 4th edition you only have to overcome DOUBLE armor rating. But which can use acident and confusion and engulf on you nearly unresisted. Which only has to look into the astral to bypass ALL of your stealth skill and cammo. Astral projection that can follow you anywhere without your knowing it and watcher spirits to do the same thing. You cant even make a test to know that you're being watched. and no gear will help. Full worn armor + physical barier spells sustained by more sprits. Indirect combat spells that specificly target the weakness of the samurai archetype which get only a single raw will test to resist. That have almost no range modifyers bypass all armor and have damage values BEFORE net hits that surpass the damage of your sniper rifle. On top of that the mage can duplicate the effects of your rating 6 medkit, cast spells on himself that are better than most of your tens-of-thousands-of-nuyen worth of implants. And can probably kill you from his livingroom after he has a spirit pick up a single freaking hair that you left in the cab you took to the bar. And where the hell do you get "long term" At char gen I'm so full of cyber I'm afraid to cut my tonails. But it's alpha ware at best WHERE'S THE FAQ ENTRY THAT TELLS ME WETHER I CAN RECOVER ESSENCE BY REMOVING LOW GRADE GEAR SO I CAN GET SOME DAMNED UPGRADES? RAW you generate your cyber character and you're done. Spend your money on beer and titties bub, cuz even if you can ever afford new implants you've got no place to put them. But a mage apparently has a choice of initiate groups on every F'ing street corner now. Look at the Missions runs 6 karma 5000¥ per run. After 2 runs he has enough karma for a grade of initiation. Hell mage twink only has to make 4 runs and he's got enough karma for a grade of initation + the magic point to go with it. He can take care of finding the initiate group in down time between runs. How the hell is that long term? What do I get? shot full of holes beat to death by some wage mage's FORCE THREE spirit and twenty grand MINUS expences like NERFED explosive ammo which costs me Three-hundred nuyen per clip PLUS the finder's fee. Cyber characters aren't front loaded they're weak and finished at character generation. Mages aren't long term unless your talking about reaching major developement events after 5-8 game sessions. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 07:29 AM
Post
#46
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 168 Joined: 26-June 06 From: USA, California Member No.: 8,778 |
I have to say that I think I kinda agree with OneTrikPony about magic being a little overpowered, and I love magic. Cyber's cool, but I just like magic better. I think Adepts especially are overpowered and way too easy to abuse. The way I see it though, Magic's long term strength requires a lot of Karma, while Cyber's strength usually just requires Nuyen. Also, for the thing about being able to learn magical stuff pretty easily... well.. you could easily house rule that so that most complex spells/adept powers require some kind of manual or formula or mentor or whatever. I know that contradicts what you said about how you like to do House Rules, but that seems to be the best way to balance them out to me. Also, Cyberware seems to have a lot of room for the GM to simply make up new stuff that isn't in the BBB. That's the way I see it, if you feel one side is unbalanced, balance it. Also, it is very worth noting that Cyber could become much more powerful once Arsenal and ummm... I think it was Augmented or soemthing like that come out. Hopefully they'll do for Cyber what Street magic did for Magic. I would really like to see some awesome streetsam come up and own a certain Phys. Adept in my group.
EDIT: Dang you posted that right before me, I guess I'll have to read that and change my post now... EDIT again: well in response to the essence thing, I asked a similar question a while ago and someone or other presented a rather good theory, the "hole" theory. If you remove a piece of cyberware you don't regain essence, but you can fill that same essence hole for other cyberware. The astral world is another of my problems with mages. The ability to see living things no matter what, even mundane ones, seems like it's way too cheap. It's impossible to hide from that, as you said. I've been considering a House Rule that makes you only able to see awakened/otherwise magical things with astral perception. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 07:46 AM
Post
#47
|
|
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 147 Joined: 27-February 06 From: Lost in Time Member No.: 8,312 |
I take it that this FAQ is a general FAQ and not the Matrix FAQ Bull was working on?
Will we see a FAQ that is more indepth interms of the Matrix still? Thyme. |
|
|
|
|
Dec 7 2006, 08:00 AM
Post
#48
|
|||||
|
Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Bull started working on his Unoffical Hacking/Wireless FAQ before he knew that FanPro was going to be compiling the official SR4 FAQ. Rob told Bull to forward the questions asked in his thread back to the home office, to be addressed in the SR4 FAQ. A good portion of them were, in some form or another.
Most likely at some point after Emergence and Unwired are released, they'll add an Advanced Hacking Rules section that corresponds to the Advanced Magic Section in the current FAQ that covered questions that were specific to Street Magic. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Dec 7 2006, 08:07 AM
Post
#49
|
|||||
|
Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 500 Joined: 4-September 06 From: Salt Lake UT Member No.: 9,299 |
Let me see if I can hold my breath. :dead: It won't be Arsenal that helps the street sam with cyber although I'm hoping for some magic bullets. I expect Augmented (the cyber book) to be in my hands about this time next year. (Adam just confirmed that they've almost got the writen material to the editors in another thread, and don't think I'm knocking the developers because I've heard that the printer is a major bottle neck). I'm not optomistic about new cyber developements. The book's probably going to be 90% full of the conversion stuff from Man & Machine and previous. They'll have to fill the remaining 10% with material that will draw the magic twinks because otherwize they're marketing the book to the 20% (my estimate) of the gamers who actually play cyber characters. If anyone who writes cares; -Please bring back the tactical computer with orientation system -Please increase either the attrubute or capacity limitations for cyberlimbs. -Please bring back options and mods for skillwire systems as well as P-Fix chips. -Please concider some rules framework for Synergy between implant systems. Same with nanite systems and bioware. Also more integration with the comlink. You could add alot of options without having to think up new gear. -I would also like to see some of the more cybertwinkie stuff like KidStealth legs and the ballance tail, climbing claws, Extendable horns and fangs. I never use them but it gives me warm fuzzies to think that there are people in the setting who might. Is there still any window between now and playtesting? Is there any window for accepting submission of Ideas? This book could save the game for some of us after the release of Street Magic and the FAQ
That's the problem there are several theory's, includeing the "hole theory" that just don't work because Essence is a Metagame attribute that has zero function except to provide arbitration for instalation of cyberware. I'm not saying that it does a bad job. My point is that we will never see any cannon info or even a FAQ because no one alive today knows absolutely what essence is or what essence does in terms of the setting. I wish someone would just make a decision and say that essence is Exactly the same thing as spirit force except that it's called essence because it was conjured in a uterus or something. The problem with the "hole theory" specificly is that age old question of wether I can get cyber ears installed in my wire hole or now in SR4 can I get half a cyber arm installed in my adrenal pump hole. And how exactly do you remove titanium bonelaceing if you can't remove boosted reflexes and how do I still get itchy if I have dermal plating between my toes. The point of a FAQ entry would be to create a UNIFIED THEORY out of all these house rules. String theory will fail before that happens. Sigh... no one is going to tackle it. I'm at loss for how to do it without filling half a book. |
||||
|
|
|
||||
|
Dec 7 2006, 08:14 AM
Post
#50
|
|
|
Prime Runner Group: Retired Admins Posts: 3,929 Joined: 26-February 02 From: .ca Member No.: 51 |
As always, info@shadowrunrpg.com is the place to suggest stuff for inclusions in books, apply for playtesting, etc.
[Augmentation, btw, not Augmented.] |
|
|
|
|
|
Lo-Fi Version | Time is now: 18th January 2025 - 10:32 AM |
Topps, Inc has sole ownership of the names, logo, artwork, marks, photographs, sounds, audio, video and/or any proprietary material used in connection with the game Shadowrun. Topps, Inc has granted permission to the Dumpshock Forums to use such names, logos, artwork, marks and/or any proprietary materials for promotional and informational purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not affiliated with the Dumpshock Forums in any official capacity whatsoever.