 Obersvations on the FAQ with regards to Hacking |
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 Dec 7 2006, 11:52 AM
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Neophyte Runner  Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364  |
After I had gone through the FAQ a few times, I wrote down some notes on interesting observations and or new questions that were brought up by the FAQ answers. Since most of them had to deal with the Hacking/Wireless portion of the rules, I decided to put them all in a post here for discussion:
I guess it's too late for the v1.5 errata, but probably next errata you'll see them take the line "Most importantly for hackers, however, VR is fast—you move at digital speeds, which can be the extra edge you need while pulling a hack job." out from p.228, since except for Probing the Target test intervals, it just isn't true. As long as everyone who writes for 4th edition understands the setting implications of this game mechanic, I can live with the change. I can even buy that the line from p.228 is a holdover from the authors' perception of earlier editions of Shadowrun and should have been edited out when AR became the dominant means of access.
So, when p.304 said "As a rule, assume that any gear item that is electronic or mechanical has a wireless-enabled computer in it." they didn't really mean that. Gotcha. (If any of these observations sound nit-picky, please understand that's not my intent. It's just that as players, all we've had to go by for over a year now is what's in the book. With it being a new edition, it was very hard to spot things that were poor editing or could have been worded better, because we had no yardstick of Developer's Intent to reference against, so we had to take every single word in the book at face value. Now that the advanced rulebooks are beginning to trickle in and the FAQ is out there, it's getting easier to see 4th edition's "Big Picture".)
So, just when wouldn't using the Free Action "Change Linked Device Mode" to turn off an implant's wireless functionality not be an option? Only example I could think might fit that scenario would be the Cranial Bomb.
And yet, there's Alternate Reality Environment software that does just this sort of real time image editing with no problem and according to this same FAQ, because ARE programs don't have a rating, they only take negligible amounts of memory/processing power to run. So, which is it? A ratingless Virtual Weather program that can "make the rain go away" and do so without even causing a drop in Response on your commlink, or an edit program that regardless of rating, isn't quick enough to edit video real time? Of course, that leads nicely into one of the questions I had put in when Bull was solictiting:
You see, I was kind of hoping for, oh you know, maybe some examples. Because It'd be nice to know what kind of capabilities that the people who are putting the sourcebooks and adventure modules together think computers of the 2070s should and shouldn't have. You know, something along the lines of: Threshold 1: Still image editing (fark.com photoshop contest/somethingawful.com photoshop phriday) Threshold 2: Good Still image editing (worth1000.com photoshop contest) Threshold 3: Recorded video editing (Greedo Shoots First) Threshold "It's Over Nine-Thousaaaaaand!": Real time video editing (OMFG u can't evn do it's impossible!!!11!eleventy!!!) Except, I have no idea if that's even close to what's going on in FanPro's collective head. It's why I asked in the first place.
So, the "degree of protection from snoopers and hackers" that subscribing all your devices to your commlink to form a PAN as described on p.212 is really no protection at all? Even though p.212 says they'd have to go through your commlink first, in reality, a hacker can still eavesdrop on and spoof commands to the individual devices on your PAN? Because SR4 defines a Node as a device or network that can be accessed, with a network being defined as a group of devices that interact, I've been treating PANs as single nodes. From what the FAQ seems to be saying, each device is supposed to be handled as an individual node whether it's subscribed/slaved to be part of a PAN or not. Seems needlessly messy to me. I'm guessing that this is to make it so you can easily hack a drone without having to go through the drone hacker's commlink first, but that could have just as easily been accomplished by a rule that says devices with pilot ratings must count as seperate nodes, and may not be grouped together with other devices to form a network-node.
This one is definitely going into my games.
This, combined with the rule about dice pool modifiers when you try to spoof commands from users with privileged accounts raises some interesting tactical choices. Do you command your drone from an admin level account, because that level is hardest to spoof in the first place, or do you command it from a security level account, knowing that if someone does figure out how to spoof the security level account you're using, they don't have access to the drone's full command set, and you can use your admin account to kill the compromised one?
I think I can almost grok this one. Programs can be loaded and running on the commlink, but it's only when the programs are actually being actively used by a user or an agent does it count against your response. (Some programs like stealth, would have to count as "in use" all the time.) I'm not sure I'm making sense with this, and even if this did make sense, I'm not sure what to think about it.
This one was one of mine from when Bull was collecting questions, and they missed the point of the question entirely. I guess I'll have to email them and tell them what the question was asking is "When does Data Bomb impact a node's response rating; when it is first put in place, when it goes off, or all at all times between and including those two endpoints?" Maybe I also should ask if the databomb can go off in a system that has been slowed to a Windows 98 level of crawl due to response decreases.
I'm probably going to retrofit this into my houserules for multi-pass encryption, to hold me over until I see what fixes they come up with in Unwired.
I guess to hard-code in restrictions, you have to re-write the OS. Shame that you'd never get it finished before it was time to retire. At least with the limitations of the device, you could probably change that with a reasonably quick B/R test.
This is a bit interesting. For critters, I can buy it, but for spirits, that goes against this passage from Street Magic, p.92: "Even when a spirit materializes into our world, it still exists primarily as an astral creature. When observing an object, a spirit sees the auras and shadows first and the physical characteristics second. Physical details metahumans characterize as obvious are frequently overlooked entirely by spirits. Interaction with technological display devices and simsense such as commlinks and simrigs is even more tenuous. The location of a spirit’s visual ability is at the very least variable; and as there is no nervous system to connect to, the technical difficulties of making such an AR setup are far from trivial." While using AR interfaces that aren't neuro-interactive solves the problem of having no nervous system to feed the AR into, the fact that the AR Objects being displayed on the goggles or the contacts don't have any sort of astral shadow should mean spirits would have trouble registering them as real. And unless you're dealing with a possession tradition spirit, you never know where exactly to put the goggles in the first place.
Interesting. I never really thought about it, but I guess datajacks / trodes would have to have some kind of pass-through feature where they just pipe the brainwave information to some upstream device that can interpret it, but in this case, it's not brainwave data, it's actual raw computer data from the organic commlink in the TM's brain. (They probably have to hack the headers on the outgoing data stream or something). Personally, I would have just given the TM's natural skinlinking. When you've got magical radio brains that work at a distance, why shouldn't you be able to manipulate the EM fields very near your body as well?
This was another one of mine. I thought you probably could turn the emotion feeds off, but I was trying to justify the existence of the [sense]-link implants. The thought process was that maybe the emotive track playback was "locked-on" at the factory, and hard to disable, making the [sense]-link implants perfect for paranoids who don't want AR feeds messing with their emotions. With easily toggleable emotive tracks, there doesn't seem to be a point in getting all those individual [sense]-link implants when you can just implant a sim-module. Some questions that got asked when Bull was collecting questions, but didn't get touched upon in the FAQ:
There were other questions that haven't been answered, but these are some of the more glaringly unresolvable questions when all you have to work with is the core rulebook. Hopefully, these (and the other unanswered questions from Bull's FAQ) will get nailed down in Unwired. |
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Dec 7 2006, 12:47 PM
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
Your first statement holds true in my mind... They just nerfed VR hackers and Technomancers to no end, just because they allowed that rule. It is almost not worth it to play a Technomancer anymore, since their only boon is Threading and Sprites, but the limitations placed on having those powers seem to outweigh the boon. I only hope that they add more to technomancers with Emergence and Unwired or else I might not play another Technomancer unless under houseruled settings...
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Dec 8 2006, 07:03 AM
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Anyway, here's a copy of what I just sent off to Rob. Time will tell if anything comes of it.
Personally, I doubt we'll hear anything on these until the next major FAQ update, whenever that is. FanPro isn't like Games Workshop, who recently posted a corrected FAQ, and a correction to the correction, for their Codex: Tyranid FAQ within the space of about 2 weeks of the release of the original FAQ. Then again, FanPro's FAQ doesn't have the mind numbing stupidity that the Codex: Tyranid FAQ had in Games Workshop's first two goes at it, either. |
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Dec 8 2006, 07:23 AM
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 906 Joined: 16-October 06 Member No.: 9,630 |
Mind if I nit pick back? Sure they meant it, an RFID tag that monitors the implant and reports problems is still a wireless enabled computer. They just mistakenly say it isn't in the FAQ. |
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Dec 8 2006, 07:43 AM
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
I could maybe buy that. It means expanding my definition of computer to include something that's essentially just a sensor and a transmitter, it's not that big of a deal. |
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Dec 10 2006, 02:46 PM
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 3,009 Joined: 25-September 06 From: Paris, France Member No.: 9,466 |
HotSim VR is still better than AR for a lot of things : +2 dice pool bonus on every Matrix test, some extended test interval are shorter and you don't get distracted by the gunfight between your team and the security guards (-1 to -3 dice pool modifier for distraction when in AR). I'm not sure, but I guess that wound modifiers may not apply due to not feeling the pain (it'd be consistent with the -6 perception test modifier while in VR) I also think that the Edit Program should be able to do edit video feeds in real time without too much troubles. The clarifications about agents indicate that agents can't exactly be used as hacking companions. Either you use them as ICE or to act on their own (for datasearch or low-level hacking (yeah, I know that rulewise nothing prevents a level 6 agent to be as powerful as a good hacker, but as a GM I don't accept it)). But bringing them with you on your hacking trip will tend to slow down your commlink (or you'll have to upload them on the node) or you need a commlink per agent (which might get expensive).
I guess that the tricks ads use in "spam zones" to get around the filters prevent the user from turning them off but I'd like to get confirmation about this. It seems that they already override RAS (porn stimulations are mentionned, which means either that RAS is overridden or that you can't move each time you experience an ad in a "spam zone"). If they also can't be turned off, it would mean that a hacker would be able to control the senses and the emotions of the average man on the street after hacking his commlink. :spin: |
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Dec 10 2006, 04:33 PM
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,168 Joined: 15-April 05 From: Helsinki, Finland Member No.: 7,337 |
Id say this one should really be just GM choice. I cant think of any hard and fast rules here. A hacker, as in the hacker archetype, or whatnot, should get the 10. A fully combo combat hacker, like SR3's old Combat Decker archetype, should also be viable for 10(being able to defend yourself and party doesnt make you not a hacker. It just makes you a tough one.) A sammie that has a few hacking skills that he uses once in a while, or in emergencies only, i think would take the five. I guess 'dabbler hackers' would be a 5 pointer, since they arent in it enough for them to get the full. The hard part is trying to determine from the start....perhaps thats what you meant? I guess someone could end up taking a few hacking skills at chargen, get the 10 and then never use them. On the other hand someone could only take a few hacking skills and use them very often. (i think thats why the 'certain number of skills must be hacking' wouldnt work. |
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Dec 10 2006, 05:30 PM
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Target Group: Members Posts: 79 Joined: 18-September 05 Member No.: 7,758 |
this kind of bugs me:
why is that question asked twice with two answers? Am I missing something that makes this clear? |
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Dec 10 2006, 05:41 PM
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
That's an easy one: If you don't choose this flaw because it limits your chars general performance too much, its worth 10 points :D.
Aww, that ruling is no fun. As I have said in the past, I give TMs a natural skinlink. Of course, the TM can still only interact with wireless devices or devices that have a skinlink interface. |
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Dec 10 2006, 06:54 PM
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 4-March 06 From: Pueblo Corporate Council Member No.: 8,332 |
If the RFID tag is sending out a signal, you could muck with that signal, but 'ware configured that way wouldn't allow for any input, so you couldn't hack it itself. But the main reason for wireless interfaces on much cyberware is for not only diagnostics, but adjustments. If it's not wireless, you've got to get cut open to fix it. Either that or have it connected by datajack. |
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Dec 10 2006, 07:01 PM
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 560 Joined: 4-March 06 From: Pueblo Corporate Council Member No.: 8,332 |
Technomancers do not have a natural "skinlink," so to access a device physically they would need some way of plugging into it (either by wirelessly accessing another device plugged into the target device or by using a datajack or trode net).
This is their way of saying Technomancers can only access a device through a wireless signal. I believe in SR3 they could access any device (because there was no such thing as a wireless signal for the Matrix). I know you're not the only one disappointed with this change in physics. |
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Dec 10 2006, 07:34 PM
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 261 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Massachusetts Member No.: 2,115 |
An ARE doesn't have to look so real that you can't tell one is running. |
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Dec 10 2006, 08:05 PM
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Target Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 13-April 06 Member No.: 8,459 |
Because that rule really destroys the flavor of them (why doesn't this forum have a roll eyes emote?). I thought that sprites and threading were MAJOR advantages (considering threading could possibly bring a complex forum to over 12+ depending on the technomancer's resonance). I'm always horribly amused by the people that cry out based on the smallest little thing, and refuse to play something because of it. |
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Dec 10 2006, 08:16 PM
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
Before you say something, make a perception check, why dont you? Check my sig? My main char is a TM. I'm well aware of the strengths and weaknesses of TM's and I'm saying the noted FAQ answer lowers their value. |
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Dec 10 2006, 08:24 PM
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Target Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 13-April 06 Member No.: 8,459 |
Wow, I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit. I already assumed that you were playing a technomancer. I didn't need to make a "perception check" in real life to realize that. The AR thing already worked that way since SR4 was launched; they just clarified it. How can it lower their worth if it's always been that way for this edition? |
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Dec 10 2006, 09:16 PM
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Neophyte Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,086 Joined: 26-February 02 Member No.: 364 |
Actually, Technomancers didn't even exist in SR3. The Otaku were not the same thing. |
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Dec 10 2006, 09:41 PM
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,011 Joined: 15-February 05 From: Montréal, QC, Canada Member No.: 7,087 |
1 - The Otakus of SR3 were not quite TMs. Essential difference being that they needed datajack and that cyberware wasn't a problem for them. But they were like deckers in that they needed to physically connect to something before they could hack anything. So there was a change of physics since SR3 ; The TM have more freedom than the Otaku. 2 - There was plenty of wireless in SR3. There was detailed rules about wireless network using different medium (Infrared, microwave, radio etc.) , how to connect to them and what effect it had on the bandwidth. Decker and Otaku alike needed to use a secondary device to be able to pickup these wireless signals. 3 - A TM confronted to a wired network/system simply needs to physically connect a wireless device to the network/system in order to access it through the wireless device. A wireless device like, say, a commlink. You can see the dreadful disadvantage they suffer when compared to a normal hacker who, in order to connect to a wired network/system can simply physically connect his... commlink. Bottom line, if the TM can't access it through wireless, he needs to somehow physically connect to it. But so does the hacker! So nobody got screwed. |
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Dec 10 2006, 10:42 PM
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
It does ... :please: |
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Dec 10 2006, 11:02 PM
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Dragon Group: Members Posts: 4,718 Joined: 14-September 02 Member No.: 3,263 |
Please do us all a favour and put down the crack pipe. Spending a mere 13 karma a Techno can submerge to get Overclocking and presto they are at 4 IP AND have the +2 dice. Plus, you know, the sprites that someone else mentioned are damn keen too. Anyway I'm pretty sure Synner has hinted at it here a few times, and others have mentioned the possibility, but maybe subtlty was not the way to reach you. Augmentation is not out yet! Perhaps [and I'd rank it at a pretty damn good bet] there just might be something in there or Unwired that allows you to gain that 4th IP without a crapload of boosting to get your meat up to 4IP, and still retain the benefit of the extra (and not so easily discounted in my mind) +2 bonus dice. This not so delicate post brought to you by the letters Orange and Big, the number +2, and posters like you. |
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Dec 10 2006, 11:43 PM
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Target Group: Members Posts: 96 Joined: 13-April 06 Member No.: 8,459 |
But that one simply can't relay the level of sarcasm/scoffing that I find comfortable! :spin: |
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Dec 11 2006, 01:26 AM
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,498 Joined: 4-August 05 From: ADL Member No.: 7,534 |
Yes, that might be true . . . (mostly to balance the mundane hacker vs the adept hacker) |
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