[X] My Assistant

[Atma]

[Siege]

[Drain Brain]

Although I've never met a Satanist, and don't know what they "believe" I think it sounds a lot more reasonable than Catholicism.

Think about it:

God created everything. God is infallible. Therefore god created all the shit that goes wrong. He/She sits in heaven spoiling with everlasting glory those who have chosen to live by Gods decree when alive.

Lucifer, on the other hand, although he was an angel and thus created by (Mr Infallible) God, resides in hell (probably not a nice place even for him - self sacrifice) doing a crappy job (punishing evildoers for all eternity) and is given zero respect for that. Why? He's like a prison warden, with a touch of torturer thrown in for good measure. He seems, to me, to be doing a "better" or at least more useful job than ol' General Officer Demanding...


Just my early morning ramblings...

[Pistons]

Keep it on Shadowrun. If you want to continue to discuss religious concepts outside of the game, you'll need to take it to private messages or email.

[Drain Brain]

Sorry - running off at the mouth since the topic seemed to go that direction.

But to get back to the game, as you said, this "off-topicy" bit gave me an idea:

I have already opined that all magic is based entirely upon the perceptions of the weilder. That being the case, my above dissertation on the relative merits of G & D could make for quite an interesting plot line.

Picture this: The runners are hired by a Johnson who is actually from the order of St Sylvester - the Order of the Vatican dealing expressly with magical matters. They want the runners to track down and either kill or capture an individual who they describe as a Satanist - a "monster" who "worships the prince of lies."

That's all well and good, until the runners discover that the individual in question percieves Catholicism's Lucifer as an epitome of Justice - punishing the wicked wrongdoers. A vigilante, if you will, damning those who do not live up to the requirements of uni-christian dogma. What do they do then? He's not evil, he's just the same as any Avenger type.

I suppose that this idea would work fairly well as an explanation of the Avenger mindset as expressed through a religious magical style - all those instances in MitS of people focusing their magic through their beliefs in <insert religion here> come together quite nicely here in this example - "The Lucifer Totem" would be an avenger variation of a "Michael Totem"


Next idea: I have my shamanic PhysAd, I have my Archangelic Totem, how do I get my wings and halo? Surge effect for the wings, Knack Illusion power for the halo and a very large weapon focus with a flame aura quickened to it for the fiery wrath of the almighty. Sounds cool to me... ;)

[Munchkinslayer]

[Siege]

Yeah, see --> that's what we in the biz call a "distinctive feature."

If you're nervy, try and trademark the likeness. :grinbig:

Putting up wanted posters would just be adding insult to injury.

-Siege

[Drain Brain]

[Siege]

Granted, there has to be a law irl against it, but:

If you trademark your likeness and then commit lots of heinous crimes for fun and profit, anyone printing your likeness on wanted posters would have to pay you a royalty.

Not only did you screw them, but now they're paying you for it. :grinbig:

-Siege

[Munchkinslayer]

[Shanshu Freeman]

[ting-bu-dong]

[Snow_Fox]

[Snow_Fox]

To find a green place in the seattle plex is fairly easy. You've got Ft Lewis in the south where they say lots of shamans have the lodges. THe hills in auburn(I think it is) and in the north the agrofarms of Snohomish.(god knows how that's spelled.)
They don't have to own land there, but maybe they move into a secluded field for the ritual. like guys who faked crop circles.

[Munchkinslayer]

Okay, how 'bout this: Don't use a traditional witch spot, use a place of power for native americans. I was also thinkin':

The mafia daddy hires the runners to snatch his kid from a cult of evil witches who are trying to summon a spirit of much badness, possibly using the mafia kid as a human sacrifice. The runners accept and find the cult. Then they find out that the witches aren't evil and aren't trying to hurt anybody. The mafia kid came of his own free will because he has recently discovered that he will goblinize. Rare in 2063, but it happens. Since this whole experience can really suck, he sought out the witches to help ease his transition with various magicks that they know.

Mafia daddy knew this all along, but he is a major league racist. So he hires some unprincipled street punks (the PCs) to nuke these meta-loving scumbags. He truly hopes to get his kid back alive, but the shame of having a metahuman kid would cause him to lock the kid in the attic forever (or something like that), so if the kid buys the farm he won't be too upset. "Yeah it's unfortunate that little Johnny had to die, but he'd be a freak anyway."

This can give the PCs some powerful magical allies (the witches), or enemies if they go in all Dirty Harry and start waxin' people. It can also start off adventures that involve the mafia (or being on the wrong side of the mafia) and human-supremacists.

Lemme apologize collectively for all of us who ignored you original question and decided to discuss semantics and theology instead. We all kinda dropped the ball on that one. Sorry.

[Siege]

Instead of Goblinize, how about fledgling shaman? Eagle? Who doesn't approve of Dad's enterprise?

Which means the magical group the kid turns to could be normal, happy-huggy people...or toxics.

Just another twist to screw with the players.

-Siege

P.S. I'm...erm...urrgh....aarghhh....sorr...grr...gasp...choke...rrry...

[White Knight]

First, regarding Wicca: If there can be Christian cults (ala Waco) then there's nothing unlikely about a Wiccan 'witch cult'. Wiccans are not necessarily anti-violence - there was a moderately recent outcry that the US Army appointed a wiccan chaplain implying that there are Wiccan soldiers, pumping high velocity lead into someone you've never met falls under my heading of 'violent'. I admit that in Shadowrun this may instead fall under the heading of 'tuesday'. Also, while Wicca was created in the twentieth century the historical things it was based on are thought to have included a fair amount of human sacrifice (I even recall Pistons saying that she doesn't personally feel the need). Wiccans are about as likely to summon a 'nasty' spirit as anyone else, given above conditions and my cynicism about human nature. Therefore, the Wiccan Witch Cult is fine and has the added bonus of being easier to flesh out with in real-world background material. (Especially with DSF's resident mechanical components and arctic mammals.*)

If you do go though Satanist route, here's a few things I thought of: IIRC the Book of Job states/implies that Satan is actually a fully fledged servant of God and doing his will. A thought I read in a preview of Demon: The Fallen is that if God is omnipotent (or even close enough) then His creations could not be faulty or work against their given purpose, and if He is Omniscient then He would know that the rebellion would happen. Therefore, Lucifer's rebellion must have been part of His plan - God works in mysterious ways. Also, angels (including Lucifer) do not have free will, only humans were given free will. Evil in the world is said to be a product of such free will - with the supreme gift of being able to make their own choices, humanity naturally sometimes make bad ones. Not quite sure how you can use that but these things occurred as I was reading and writing. By the way, I believe there are at least two or three separate religions that call themselves Satanists - one of which is the 'dedicated to evil' form.

Now,

Questions (1) and (2) have been better answered by others.

(3) & (4) If you want a more complicated plot, what about the cult actually manipulated the kid into joining, although he believes it to have been his choice. Perhaps the cult wants leverage over the Mafia, entry into the organised crime market (a piece of the action), to control/take over/destroy the Mafia or something similar. It may even be personal history between the SR's employer and the cult. Maybe the cult is acting as a pawn of someone else, with or without the cult's knowledge - Yakuza or Triad? Tentacled Thing from beyond time and space wishing to feed from the Mafia and their actions? Whatever.

The mentor/leader spirit is going to achieve this by possessing the child - thereby guiding the cult and achieving the Mafia political stunt in the same stroke. More complications/complexity can be included by using several of these points simultaneously and have multiple factions in an (almost)-behind-the-scenes political power struggle (ie. multiple Mafia factions, Yakuza and Tentacled Monstrosity both separately manipulating the cult, the cult thinking it's working on its own, the Triads trying to get ahead while everyone else is distracted, celtic spirits or spirits of Tara/Dana (sorry I forget the name - true Wiccan spirits) interfering and so forth).

I like the Wild Hunt idea. Possibly separately from the leader spirit, as otherwise it makes little sense with my plot (at least, if they intended to summon the Wild Hunt as opposed to just getting it by mistake or the interferance of others).

* Sorry, I tend to sound like this when I have had little sleep.

[ting-bu-dong]

Hi,
thanks a lot for all the constructive advice. Here's what I did with the plot, I am curious what your comments on that will be.

First off, as you may have noticed, I am in no way familiar with Wicca, Satanism or black magic. Neither is my group. So, I will leave the detailed definition of the cult's belief in the dark, no one would notice the difference anyhow.

The Plot:
Seattle's mafia world is dominated by the struggle for the position as the capo. One of the hotter candidate's son is enchanted by a mafia hermetic to be attracted to a cult that occupies most of his time and gets his undivided attention and loyalty. What nobody knows is that Bobby (the son) is about the Awaken as a physical adept, which has been triggered by the frequent exposure to magic in the cult's rituals (not all but some of the members are Awakened).
A few days before halloween the cult travels to the NAN to a site they believe to be a site of power, maybe even a spontaneous crossing of mana lines caused by the spiritual energy accumulated around halloween. Therefore Bobby has to vanish for a few days and does not tell his father where he will go, as all of his mind is fixed on the cult.
The runners are hired by the worried father who has no idea where his son might be to find Bobby and bring him back home. They find him at the site of the ritual and extract him there. The cult, convinced that Bobby joined by free will, tries to get him back and send a few spirits after the runners, which makes them crash in the wilderness (they will either travel by helicopter or van).
After a while, they reach a settlement of the Cascade Orks and have to some way sneak or buy their way into Seattle.
When they have returned, Bobby is reunited with his family and the mafia remembers the runners' names (in a good way).
A few days later, on Halloween eve, Bobby flees from his home and returns to the Cult, where the summoning of said free spirit takes place. He tells the cult the "evil shadowrunners who kidnapped him" and the cult seeks revenge. In addition, the mafioso rehires the runners as soon as he finds out his son is missing again. This time, it's personal and the cult "has to pay for kidnapping Bobby".

I am thinking of how to include the other familia that has enchanted Bobby, not sure on that one yet.

What do you think?

tbd

[Snow_Fox]

[TinkerGnome]

[Siege]