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> The word Fiat?, Why is Dumpshock in love with it?
ixombie
post Dec 11 2006, 05:27 PM
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For the first time ever in my gaming career, I am hearing a phrase tossed around as an integral part of the lexicon: GM fiat. It's easy to understand what it means from the context, but just what does that word mean according to the "experts?"

QUOTE ("dictionary.com")

fi·at /ˈfiɑt, -æt; ˈfaɪət, -æt/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[fee-aht, -at; fahy-uht, -at] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation   
–noun
1. an authoritative decree, sanction, or order: a royal fiat.
2. a formula containing the word fiat, by which a person in authority gives sanction.
3. an arbitrary decree or pronouncement, esp. by a person or group of persons having absolute authority to enforce it: The king ruled by fiat.


When I read this definition, I was a bit surprised. Where I come from, the way people refer to GM rulings is with the phrase GM discretion. In fact, that's the way SR4 and every RPG book I can can recall put it. GM discretion means that the GM makes a decision according to their best judgment, rather than making a pronouncement.

Fiat denotes a decree, an arbitrary decision by which players are ostensibly forced to abide whether they like it or not. I have never played a game where the word fiat would apply to the GM's decisions - every GM I have ever had worked hard to make sure their decisions were fair and the players were ok with them. Part of it of course is that my fellow players have always been reasonably mature and won't argue with a GM's exercise of discretion just because it goes against them.

All in all, it seems that people use the word fiat as a slur on GM authority. Using fiat instead of discretion is saying that the GM's power is arbitrary, rather than based on fairness or common sense. Is this what people mean when they use fiat, or is it just a substitute word with no extra connotation the way most people use it?
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Konsaki
post Dec 11 2006, 05:37 PM
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Or that might just be your take on it.

IMO, the GM has to make a decision that might have a huge impact on the story/char/game. While yes the choice the GM makes could be arbitrary, a 'good' GM will think it over to the best of his ability and then choose something. We could call this process Snargle or Gronta and it would still hold the same weight for the fact that the GM needs to make a decision on a matter at hand.
It's how he does it that makes the difference.
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lorechaser
post Dec 11 2006, 06:00 PM
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Because they're just so darn cool.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...x-Lada_1200.jpg

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knasser
post Dec 11 2006, 06:01 PM
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No, I agree with the dead one. GM fiat is a pejorative term. I usually refer to something as a judgement call when I want to be entirely neutral.

But I've usually thought of GM fiat as being rail roading rather than house ruling. When the Lonestar cops show up just by chance at the moment that the characters are about to get their hands on something the GM doesn't want them to have, that's what I call GM Fiat and I consider the term to indicate something bad.
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James McMurray
post Dec 11 2006, 06:02 PM
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GM Fiat is just GM Discretion that you disagree with. At least, that seems to be how it usually gets used here.
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djinni
post Dec 11 2006, 06:03 PM
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if you think the GM is the omnipotent ruler of your gaming group you tend to lean toward vocabulary that supports the thought such as "fiat" or "ruling."
if you take the general Idea of the gaming community that the GM is no more powerful than the players you use vocabulary like "vote" "decision" or "discretion."
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lorechaser
post Dec 11 2006, 06:09 PM
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Eh.

The DM has as much power as he is given by the group. But one of the GM's essential job functions is to make a ruling when players can't agree, imho. The players argue, no one agrees, so one person makes the call. That person is the GM.

I've always see fiat as somewhat pejorative too. "Why did the vampire escape through a greenhouse? It's daylight out!" "GM Fiat." "You can't do that." "Why not?" "Cause." "GM Fiat."
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ShadowDragon
post Dec 11 2006, 06:11 PM
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You're overthinking this. The word "fiat" has no inherent negative connotation. It's a neutral word. If it bothers you that GMs have authority over a game, you're playing with the wrong GM.
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ShadowDragon
post Dec 11 2006, 06:15 PM
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QUOTE (lorechaser)
I've always see fiat as somewhat pejorative too. "Why did the vampire escape through a greenhouse? It's daylight out!" "GM Fiat." "You can't do that." "Why not?" "Cause." "GM Fiat."

Sometimes this can't be avoided though without giving away plot elements that would ruin the game. Suppose that vampire really isn't one, and the PCs are just lead to believe he is a vampire. If you gave them the logical answer they want (or even hint at it with some smarter players), you'd ruin part of the plot.
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Marmot
post Dec 11 2006, 07:02 PM
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It's better when you use a 10 :nuyen: word for it, because most gaming groups just get annoyed when I GM and claim to have 'done it for the lolz'.

Also, fiat and discretion are easier to type than the example above.

Edit: Monetary sign edited for relevance.
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lorechaser
post Dec 11 2006, 07:03 PM
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Very true.

That's where a knowing smile comes in handy as the GM. ;)
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Butterblume
post Dec 11 2006, 07:23 PM
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You are all wrong, of course. If you wanted the GM to do something special for your char, you called the pizza delivery service. Since around here the most used car of pizza delivery services was the Fiat Panda, the other players tended to roll their eyes and moaned "There's the GM Fiat, again".
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ixombie
post Dec 11 2006, 07:26 PM
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My post was just wondering why people use the word so much, soliciting peoples' ideas on what it means, and giving my own take.

Thank you to the people who have given constructive replies so far.

Also, thanks to the people who have misunderstood the content of my post and flamed me. Where would the internet be without the noble half literate trolls? :)
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Marmot
post Dec 11 2006, 07:41 PM
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I did it for the lolz.
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Fortune
post Dec 11 2006, 07:49 PM
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QUOTE (ixombie)
Also, thanks to the people who have misunderstood the content of my post and flamed me. Where would the internet be without the noble half literate trolls?

You know, I've re-read the thread, and just don't see even one example of something I would call a 'flame'. Would you be so kind as to point them out for me, so that I know what to look for next time?
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mfb
post Dec 11 2006, 07:55 PM
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i actually don't view "GM fiat" with any negative connotations. the GM can and should exercise absolute authority when necessary to keep the game running smoothly. that doesn't mean he shouldn't also listen to his players, but the ultimate decisions are his to make.

and, yeah--what flames? i mean, if you want, i'm sure somebody here'd be willing to cast aspersions on your parentage and faculties, or call you a Nazi. but i don't see that anyone actually has, yet.
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Konsaki
post Dec 11 2006, 07:59 PM
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Great... MFB has invoked the rule... Sorta...

Confused?
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mfb
post Dec 11 2006, 08:00 PM
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YOUR A NAZI

YOUR LIKE SOME KIND OF KONHITLER
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Konsaki
post Dec 11 2006, 08:01 PM
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NOOO!!!eleven!! I've been found out... Where's my pillz?!
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Marmot
post Dec 11 2006, 08:52 PM
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Your NAZI pills, am I right?

Oh snap, we hijacked this thread like Germany hijacked the Sudetenland.
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Butterblume
post Dec 11 2006, 09:14 PM
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I can't understand the reference to Hitler. Fiat is an italian car, so Benito Mussolini should be mentioned instead.
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Kyoto Kid
post Dec 11 2006, 09:16 PM
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QUOTE (lorechaser)
Because they're just so darn cool.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/comm...x-Lada_1200.jpg


...damn straight

But if GM starts making them they'll look like every other blandmobile on the road.:grinbig:
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Aaron
post Dec 11 2006, 09:20 PM
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Just let it be.
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Cain
post Dec 11 2006, 09:53 PM
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In an attempt to salvage this thread: There is a difference between GM Discretion and GM fiat. Discretion is used in conjunction witht he player's choices and opinions. GM Fiat is a simple pronouncement without bothering to consider another point of view: a true royal fiat.

(Actually, this post is an attempt to chase down a weird error I keep getting. You may now return to your regulararly scheduled bulldrek. 8) )
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Konsaki
post Dec 11 2006, 09:58 PM
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Opinions and interpretations are so grand, you ask 100 people what something is and you could get everyone agreeing on what it is or you could get an infinite amount of answers that dont quite match up.
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