 The word Fiat?, Why is Dumpshock in love with it? |
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 Dec 11 2006, 05:27 PM
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#1
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Moving Target  Group: Members Posts: 271 Joined: 18-April 06 Member No.: 8,481  |
For the first time ever in my gaming career, I am hearing a phrase tossed around as an integral part of the lexicon: GM fiat. It's easy to understand what it means from the context, but just what does that word mean according to the "experts?"
When I read this definition, I was a bit surprised. Where I come from, the way people refer to GM rulings is with the phrase GM discretion. In fact, that's the way SR4 and every RPG book I can can recall put it. GM discretion means that the GM makes a decision according to their best judgment, rather than making a pronouncement. Fiat denotes a decree, an arbitrary decision by which players are ostensibly forced to abide whether they like it or not. I have never played a game where the word fiat would apply to the GM's decisions - every GM I have ever had worked hard to make sure their decisions were fair and the players were ok with them. Part of it of course is that my fellow players have always been reasonably mature and won't argue with a GM's exercise of discretion just because it goes against them. All in all, it seems that people use the word fiat as a slur on GM authority. Using fiat instead of discretion is saying that the GM's power is arbitrary, rather than based on fairness or common sense. Is this what people mean when they use fiat, or is it just a substitute word with no extra connotation the way most people use it? |
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Dec 11 2006, 05:37 PM
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#2
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
Or that might just be your take on it.
IMO, the GM has to make a decision that might have a huge impact on the story/char/game. While yes the choice the GM makes could be arbitrary, a 'good' GM will think it over to the best of his ability and then choose something. We could call this process Snargle or Gronta and it would still hold the same weight for the fact that the GM needs to make a decision on a matter at hand. It's how he does it that makes the difference. |
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Dec 11 2006, 06:00 PM
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#3
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
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Dec 11 2006, 06:01 PM
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#4
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Shadow Cartographer Group: Members Posts: 3,737 Joined: 2-June 06 From: Secret Tunnels under the UK (South West) Member No.: 8,636 |
No, I agree with the dead one. GM fiat is a pejorative term. I usually refer to something as a judgement call when I want to be entirely neutral. But I've usually thought of GM fiat as being rail roading rather than house ruling. When the Lonestar cops show up just by chance at the moment that the characters are about to get their hands on something the GM doesn't want them to have, that's what I call GM Fiat and I consider the term to indicate something bad. |
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Dec 11 2006, 06:02 PM
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#5
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Great Dragon Group: Members Posts: 5,430 Joined: 10-January 05 From: Fort Worth, Texas Member No.: 6,957 |
GM Fiat is just GM Discretion that you disagree with. At least, that seems to be how it usually gets used here.
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Dec 11 2006, 06:03 PM
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#6
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 777 Joined: 22-November 06 Member No.: 9,934 |
if you think the GM is the omnipotent ruler of your gaming group you tend to lean toward vocabulary that supports the thought such as "fiat" or "ruling."
if you take the general Idea of the gaming community that the GM is no more powerful than the players you use vocabulary like "vote" "decision" or "discretion." |
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Dec 11 2006, 06:09 PM
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#7
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
Eh.
The DM has as much power as he is given by the group. But one of the GM's essential job functions is to make a ruling when players can't agree, imho. The players argue, no one agrees, so one person makes the call. That person is the GM. I've always see fiat as somewhat pejorative too. "Why did the vampire escape through a greenhouse? It's daylight out!" "GM Fiat." "You can't do that." "Why not?" "Cause." "GM Fiat." |
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Dec 11 2006, 06:11 PM
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#8
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
You're overthinking this. The word "fiat" has no inherent negative connotation. It's a neutral word. If it bothers you that GMs have authority over a game, you're playing with the wrong GM.
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Dec 11 2006, 06:15 PM
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#9
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 393 Joined: 20-June 06 Member No.: 8,754 |
Sometimes this can't be avoided though without giving away plot elements that would ruin the game. Suppose that vampire really isn't one, and the PCs are just lead to believe he is a vampire. If you gave them the logical answer they want (or even hint at it with some smarter players), you'd ruin part of the plot. |
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Dec 11 2006, 07:02 PM
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#10
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Target Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: 6-December 06 Member No.: 10,248 |
It's better when you use a 10 :nuyen: word for it, because most gaming groups just get annoyed when I GM and claim to have 'done it for the lolz'.
Also, fiat and discretion are easier to type than the example above. Edit: Monetary sign edited for relevance. |
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Dec 11 2006, 07:03 PM
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#11
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,333 Joined: 19-August 06 From: Austin Member No.: 9,168 |
Very true.
That's where a knowing smile comes in handy as the GM. ;) |
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Dec 11 2006, 07:23 PM
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#12
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
You are all wrong, of course. If you wanted the GM to do something special for your char, you called the pizza delivery service. Since around here the most used car of pizza delivery services was the Fiat Panda, the other players tended to roll their eyes and moaned "There's the GM Fiat, again".
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Dec 11 2006, 07:26 PM
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#13
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Moving Target Group: Members Posts: 271 Joined: 18-April 06 Member No.: 8,481 |
My post was just wondering why people use the word so much, soliciting peoples' ideas on what it means, and giving my own take.
Thank you to the people who have given constructive replies so far. Also, thanks to the people who have misunderstood the content of my post and flamed me. Where would the internet be without the noble half literate trolls? :) |
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Dec 11 2006, 07:41 PM
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#14
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Target Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: 6-December 06 Member No.: 10,248 |
I did it for the lolz.
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Dec 11 2006, 07:49 PM
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#15
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Immoral Elf Group: Members Posts: 15,247 Joined: 29-March 02 From: Grimy Pete's Bar & Laundromat Member No.: 2,486 |
You know, I've re-read the thread, and just don't see even one example of something I would call a 'flame'. Would you be so kind as to point them out for me, so that I know what to look for next time? |
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Dec 11 2006, 07:55 PM
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#16
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
i actually don't view "GM fiat" with any negative connotations. the GM can and should exercise absolute authority when necessary to keep the game running smoothly. that doesn't mean he shouldn't also listen to his players, but the ultimate decisions are his to make.
and, yeah--what flames? i mean, if you want, i'm sure somebody here'd be willing to cast aspersions on your parentage and faculties, or call you a Nazi. but i don't see that anyone actually has, yet. |
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Dec 11 2006, 07:59 PM
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#17
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
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Dec 11 2006, 08:00 PM
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#18
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Immortal Elf Group: Members Posts: 11,410 Joined: 1-October 03 From: Pittsburgh Member No.: 5,670 |
YOUR A NAZI
YOUR LIKE SOME KIND OF KONHITLER |
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Dec 11 2006, 08:01 PM
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#19
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
NOOO!!!eleven!! I've been found out... Where's my pillz?!
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Dec 11 2006, 08:52 PM
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#20
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Target Group: Members Posts: 84 Joined: 6-December 06 Member No.: 10,248 |
Your NAZI pills, am I right?
Oh snap, we hijacked this thread like Germany hijacked the Sudetenland. |
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Dec 11 2006, 09:14 PM
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#21
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Running Target Group: Members Posts: 1,150 Joined: 19-December 05 From: Rhein-Ruhr Megaplex Member No.: 8,081 |
I can't understand the reference to Hitler. Fiat is an italian car, so Benito Mussolini should be mentioned instead.
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Dec 11 2006, 09:16 PM
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#22
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Bushido Cowgirl Group: Members Posts: 5,782 Joined: 8-July 05 From: On the Double K Ranch a half day's ride out of Phlogiston Flats Member No.: 7,490 |
...damn straight But if GM starts making them they'll look like every other blandmobile on the road.:grinbig: |
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Dec 11 2006, 09:20 PM
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#23
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Mr. Johnson Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 3,148 Joined: 27-February 06 From: UCAS Member No.: 8,314 |
Just let it be.
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Dec 11 2006, 09:53 PM
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#24
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Grand Master of Run-Fu Group: Dumpshocked Posts: 6,840 Joined: 26-February 02 From: Tir Tairngire Member No.: 178 |
In an attempt to salvage this thread: There is a difference between GM Discretion and GM fiat. Discretion is used in conjunction witht he player's choices and opinions. GM Fiat is a simple pronouncement without bothering to consider another point of view: a true royal fiat.
(Actually, this post is an attempt to chase down a weird error I keep getting. You may now return to your regulararly scheduled bulldrek. 8) ) |
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Dec 11 2006, 09:58 PM
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#25
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Runner Group: Members Posts: 2,526 Joined: 9-April 06 From: McGuire AFB, NJ Member No.: 8,445 |
Opinions and interpretations are so grand, you ask 100 people what something is and you could get everyone agreeing on what it is or you could get an infinite amount of answers that dont quite match up.
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