Kerris, Nerfing a Drone Rigger Options

[Kerris]

I recently started a SR4 campaign, and am slowly learning how to effectively run this game (so it's fun for everyone involved). However, one of the major fun detractors is that one of the characters is a drone rigger who has four combat drones. Since his drones get 3 initiative passes, a large part of the combat turn is spent rolling attacks for these drones, and combat is very slow. Also, his drones, of course, have Very Large Guns mounted on them (Ingram White Knights, to be specific). The lackeys I've been throwing at them can't stand up to that (and some of the harder foes can't either). This makes combat even less fun for everybody else, since they shoot at a couple guys, they miss, and then the guys are dead (or at least mortally wounded and pulling themselves into cover) due to these drones.

So, my question is this: Should I limit his drone usage out of game? Or should I continue to attempt to take out his drones in-game? Do you guys have any tactics against flying drones with large guns that might be useful?

[DireRadiant]

Jammers. cheap and easy.

Stick and Shock Ammo, cheap and easy.

Counter Rigger hack or spoof the drones and have the drones shoot at the team.

After that we get into what usually happens when heavy weaponry is used frequently, someone sends bigger, better, badder, entirely legal drones looking for the illegal ones.

[KarmaInferno]

Lone Star showing up a lot more often with even bigger guns?

Someone regularly using LMGs in downtown areas is going to get noticed, even in Seattle of the 2060s.

While they're nice weapons and sometimes nothing else will do, LMGs aren't exactly "shadowy".


-karma

[Kagetenshi]

You might get more specific answers in the SR4 forum. That said:

IMO, as you get into your stride, you'll probably discover that nerfing isn't necessary. Combat Riggers will munch just about anything in straight-up combat, but drone mobility is, for the more combat-effective chassis and models, highly limited—things like doors, hallways, stairwells, etc. all pose problems.

So my answer would be, "stop having all of your fights occur in wide open terrain".

Also, please use a thread title meaningful to the topic. Your username automatically appears next to the title, we don't it again on that line :)

~J

[eidolon]

Terrain is one of the fastest ways to level the playing field. I concur. I know that when I first started GMing, even when the terrain was described by me as inside a building, narrow alleyways, etc, when combat got rolling, my descriptions would get quickly forgotten by both me and my players, because it just took a back seat to trying to keep everything running smoothly. Thus, even in buildings, my fights would be "out in the open". Over time, it gets easier to incorporate, and can definitely provide some good opportunities for new tactics and different combats.

[Kerris]

I actually considered the "have fights inside" option, but when the team needs to escape from somewhere, it's going to be outside at some point. I'll see what I can do about it, though. My last combat had some cool terrain, though. I was proud of that terrain (yay for shipping yards).

As for the other options, they're much appreciated. Some of them, I'm not sure I can justify... like the Stick-n-shock ammo just doesn't make sense until somebody specifically knows they're fighting this exact team. Same with a counter-rigger. Random hacker guy might not be a bad idea, though.

I like the idea of throwing Lone Star at them more often, though. It's already worked once, in terms of getting the characters to be more shadowy. (The rigger had guns mounted on his van... it was parked in a residential area... somebody called security. They're just lucky I was nice enough to do it when the whole team was back from recon, and it wasn't just the Technomancer in the back of the van).

[Butterblume]

Thirst thing would be a News Report where one official promises to end the threat of heavily armed combat drones by creating a taskforce. (so the players are warned, even if they don't know it :P).

The fastest way to neutralize the drones would be hackers (they can virtually be on-site really fast). The rigger most likely has no chance to protect all drones simultaneously.
The other suggestions so far are also good ;).

[Kagetenshi]

[Fix-it]

usually there's this thing called "Discrection" that keeps riggers in check.

unless you're in the middle of Redmond, (where you would WANT a quartet of LMG packing drones)

the star tends to get called right quick when people hear LMGs going off.

[DireRadiant]

[Fix-it]

as well as a lot of runners. you never know when you might need someone alive. (for a voice print lock for example.

[Serbitar]

If he is a decent rigger his combat drones are vector thrust. Terrain is no problem for them, they are even better than humans there.

A combat rigger is an army. The only way to stop a combat rigger is to force secret runs. And when i was a gard and would see a couple of combat drones coming my way, I would be calling LoneStar with a mob master and a SAWT team.

[lorechaser]

[James McMurray]

[Serbitar]

Btw: Why have guards at all? Drones are much much cheaper and more effective.

[Butterblume]

In fights? Certainly. Assessing threats in a crowded environment? Probably not.

[Caine Hazen]

[Kasheu]

radiated areas tend to work well if he doesnt have them hardened plus if he's one to send his drones out in attack mode who's defending him? shadowrunners arent the only thing that can be stealthy heh. also maybe have mages with elementals. nothing worse for a combat drone with heavy weapons than having its ammo set off by a fire elemental.

[ShadowDragon8685]

I would think carefully before you decide to frag over a rigger.

Remember, he loses his drones, he's just lost it all. He'll probably be turned off by Shadowrun completely, "I was having fun, then the DM took away everything I could do." Drones are expensive, frequently more than the whole team makes in a run. You frag them over, and he's out of options, since all his resources are represented by that drone (squad).

[Kerris]

That's precisely why I didn't want to have to take them away out of game. He made the character, it's all in the rules... he should have his drones. But they should also be in danger. They're robots. They're not invincible killing machines. And the other players need to have a chance to do something in combat.

Again, thank you all for the responses.

As per the stick-n-shock discussion - next time they infiltrate a corp, I'll definitely put that into effect. I think the next run is going to be information-gathering... specifically on the Eighty-Eights. I figure once they know that the rigger is coming after them, they'd go out and get some stick-n-shock, since they probably don't already have it (or, at least, much of it).

Also, one thing I've thought of is storage space. I'm not sure if he can fit all of his drones in his van, and thus, I'm not sure if he can bring all his drones on a run. I'll look into it.

[Fortune]

Maybe try sending the team on a few runs that don't require combat, like surveillance (Riggers are great for that).

[ShadowDragon8685]

Another thing you could do is lock the drones into "Plot-Combat". By which I mean, feed the drones large amounts of fodder NPCs, tell the rigger he's chewing through them, and let the others deal with the dice.


For example, in a shipping yard - lots of ways to come at the PCs. Let the drones lock down some avenues, but there's more avenues than drones. (Right?)

[James McMurray]

that's another good thing about the stick-n-shock. If the PCs win the battle the drones are barely nicked, but they were negated during the fight.

[ShadowDragon8685]

[James McMurray]

It's called nonconductive armor, and it already has game effects.

If you want a real world explanation you'll have to look elsewhere. :)