Kerris, Nerfing a Drone Rigger Options

[ShadowDragon8685]

[Jack Kain]

Those drones could easily draw attention. You can counter them with mutilple lone star/corp combat drones.
Remember the enemy can do it to.
DON'T be afraid to blow up a drone or two. You don't have to frag him over but if his drone team all get some hefty damage from a few grendades he may decided to only bring one at time and save the others in reserve. Repair cost money.

An enemy hacker is of course a good idea. Drones have a much larger signal range so the hacker could be out of sight with out much trouble.


If he loses his combat drones he's only lost all because he invested everything in one basket.
As a rigger he should have had various drones for various tasks. And those drones he sends into combat SHOULD be at just as much risk as the street samurai's.


if the street samurai can get splaterd for reckless behavior in combat so should the rigger's drones.

[Fix-it]

[Kagetenshi]

No no, you insulate the software. Have to keep all of the bits separated, you know :)

~J

[Kesslan]

Yeah, drones being expensive is no reason to allow a rigger to do stupid things with them. I mean I've gmed a few games where a rigger took drones on a run. Ok no biggie. ALot of em are often (With more experienced riggers) actually recon drones, and they usualy have a light gun or something but they mostly just provide overwatch incase the baddies are comming up from behind.

It's the inexperienced ones I've found that take say.. a rotor drone into a building. I had one rigger do that under SR3. Ok the drone in question was not made at all for flying about indoors. Add a few light penalties. Restrict movment area.. it IS indoors afterall, and short of a giant cathedral or something there isnt really alot of room to buz about in.

The rigger in question quickly started having his drones getting scratched up, and he ALMOST crasehd one of his rotor drones. That was the alst time he ever took a rotor drone in. After that he was going with steel lynxes etc whcih are made to fight indoors.

The flyers stayed strictly outside. And combat drones, yes.. can be horribly powerful. I've played a rigger and run roughshod over NPCs before myself. But a good GM also keeps in mind, penalties that apply to players can easily apply to drones. ANd generally a drone by itself isnt as good at handling things as a PC is (Like.. a steep set of stairs if its a wheeled drone or something)

ALso dont be afraid to have the NPCs shoot back at the drones and even shoot them down. Even if you waste every one of his drones... well hes still not without recourse. The PCs could then do a new run just to get the rigger some new toys for the team. ANd hopefully he'll learn not to be so careless with them in the future.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Please, do be afraid to blow up all of his combat drones. Remember, without them he's a mundane, not skilled in combat and basically worthless.

He really will be without recourse - in his situation, I'd just have my depressed character commit suicide, having given what few possessions life left to him to the hacker, and come back with a new character.


Just like any mage who's had his Magic stat burnt down - a Rigger without drones to rig is Joe Blow OntheStreet

[Kagetenshi]

No, actually, penalties that apply to players don't apply to drones very easily at all. Visibility-related penalties in particular.

~J

[Kesslan]

[ShadowDragon8685]

Just one problem... How exactly do you plan to steal new ones? And don't dare say "Just spoof a Lone Star Strato-9." Sure, it's iconic, but Lone Star has probably bugged the thing six ways from sunday - it's not the kind opf thing anybody sane hangs onto, and it's not something your fixer can fence for anything but scrap value.

Drones are, after all, expensive machinery, for just this reason they are well, well-protected. If you're trying to take one from it's job, it's likely to have an operator not too far away, in cyberspace at least, and if you're raiding the depot, well...

You might as well just commit seppuku and save them the ammo cost.

[Kesslan]

Spoofing would be one way. And if it has a tracer.. use a jammer as a counter. Jammers are cheap, and effective. And it would only need to be big enough to cover the area of say...the interior of a van.

If the signal is jammed it cant go out. And then once it's shutdown you can pull up somewhere once you loose any persuit and take your time searching for/finding the tracking devices.

Also assumably the drones are being stored -somewhere- when their not in service. Afterall drones like anything realistically require maintenance, refuling, charging etc. I dont see how it would be much of a streatch to sneak into such a place (risky yes, but what run isnt risky?) and swiping a few. Doing the repairs/maitnence yourself etc.

There are perfectly doable ways to handle it. And if your a careful rigger you shouldnt ever be in a position where you up and loose every last one of your drones anyway. When ever I've played a rigger I've allways kept at least one or two spares just incase. I know their expensive to replace, which is why you should know enough to be careful with them.

They also should _NOT_ ever be totally immune to loss. I mean if I have a group of sec guards fighting some runners and suddenly their swarmed by drones, at least a few of those guards are going to at least try to shoot at the drones assumign they have anything that could hurt it.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Doing a smash and grab on a drone storage depot is really akin to doing a smash and grab at the Shiawase Nuke Plant.


You're fragged in the head if you even consider it. There's a biiiig difference between "Risky" and "Suicide". Running a drone depot is right below the Shiawase Nuke Plant, which is right below the White House, which is right below taking a contract on Lofwyr.

[Digital Heroin]

[Kesslan]

This is exactly my point. A rigger should by no means be totaly gimped by the loss of his drones. Gimed to an extent? Sure.

But totally worthless? Hell no. On the subject I'll give abit of a rundown on how at least I setup a rigger char for SR3.

Resources A Go go 1M nuyen yah!
Skills: B or C
Attributes: B or C

Cyberware:
Control Rig 1 or 2 (usually 2)
Some basic init gear
Smartlink-2
Misc odds n' ends, mostly visual enhancements

Drones:
2x Combat drones
1-2x Recon drones
maybe 1 or 2 other drone types

Vehicle:
I'll usually dump most of my budget into this. (EDIT: Initially had 500k down.. which isnt really acurrate I dont think. It's been ages sicne I've made a rigger and I'd have to play with the numbers alot)

Misc gear:
Repair tools. ALLWAYS
Maybe a shop if i can swing it, it really depends on what i"m aiming for.

Skills:
For combat:
-Pistols 3 or 4
-SMG 4
-stealth 3 or 4

The rest I dump into about an even split in piloting skills, and various skills that would help me build/repair/modfity drones and vehicles.

As setup sort of like that should never become 'useless' becuase of the loss of a few (Albeit very expensive) drones.

[Kagetenshi]

That's certainly viable, but it's far from a specialized Rigger. If you want to be a dedicated Rigger, drop the init gear, make that VCR a VCR-3, drop SMG and maybe Pistols, and probably lose fewer drones in the process.

I mean, doing stupid things is doing stupid things, and it's perfectly ok to make a less-than-ideal Rigger because you want to do more things than rig, but making a half-assed Rigger just because you're afraid you might lose some drones is… not the right call, IMO.

Also, in many cases it might be better to spend most of what you've allocated to vehicle on more drones. It doesn't take that much to build a moderate combat monster of a vehicle, and making a true road tank usually isn't the first priority.

~J

[James McMurray]

My riggers can all fight by themselves, because I know none of us that GM are afraid to blow stuff up.

[ShadowDragon8685]

[James McMurray]

Tell that to the asses he kicks.

[Kagetenshi]

You can definitely kick asses, and I don't agree that that combination is useless, but you can kick more asses by specializing in one or the other, at least at chargen. Post-chargen, the mounting karma costs encourage branching out.

~J

[James McMurray]

Sure, I could have hyper specialized at char gen, but by branching out I was more versatile and had more fun playing the character, since "kicking asses" wasn't my only goal. YMMV.

[ShadowDragon8685]

Kicking asses is what puts money on the table. And a jack of all trades is a master of none - and in the Shadows, if you don't master your trade, you're going to be one of the next on the Scrolls of the Dead.

Sounds like somebody's DM was pampering him.

[James McMurray]

Yep, that's exactly what happened. :rotfl:

[Lovesmasher]

[ShadowDragon8685]

[James McMurray]

Dude. Honestly. Take it from a guy that's seen loooots of trolls. You're gonna have to try harder that that if you wanna get a rise out of a vet. :)

[Lovesmasher]