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> What kind of players would you see in Urban Brawl?
Xane
post Dec 16 2006, 01:22 AM
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What Kind of Cyberware would they have?
How many on the team would have it? I mean, given the mortality rate It seems obvious everyone couldn't get wired reflexes.
What would be the makeup of the team? At least Cyberwarewise?

I've checked the Urban Brawl Rules Website and it says any ware goes, I'm just curious to see what people think the specifics would be.
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djinni
post Dec 16 2006, 01:46 AM
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QUOTE (Xane)
What Kind of Cyberware would they have?

you'd most likely have several different leagues,
Anything goes would be the professional top teir
only Cyberware
only Bioware
no ware
no magic
Dermal plating/Orthoskin, Bone density augmentation, and Bonelacing seem to be on my high priority list.
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dog_xinu
post Dec 16 2006, 02:01 AM
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it will depend on the position in the game. basic answer is things to make them go faster and take more damage (or shrug damage off).
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 16 2006, 02:44 AM
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I don't think that springing for Wired Reflexes I for the professional league would be out of the question. That's 11K, which is a good chunk short of the death expenses for a player. Indeed, insurance would probably demand that players got Wired I before they stepped onto the field.

Really what you're looking at is a Cost/Benefit equation for 'ware. The basic pro team is a money making institution, so you're looking at the costs of 'ware being weighed against the costs of paying out death benefits and hiring a new player (probably about 100 thousand nuyen). So the average team is going to think twice before shilling out more than 50k on an individual. Of course, they don't give a fuck about Essence one way or the other. Sop you're going to see stuff like Dermal Armor and Muscle Replacement. It's good enough and it's cheap as free.

Of course, there's the other end of the spectrum - the vanity teams. These are the teams like The Mountain Dragons, who are put together for no better reason than to bring glory and fame to their owner. Ares doesn't need to make money off of the Predators, it sees them as an advertising expense. These teams can afford to spend lavishly on payroll, cyberware, and equipment because they aren't even intended to break even. They are intended to show what a badass Dunkelzahn is, or how fucking hardcore the equipment Ares makes is.

And to put that in perspective, the NFL salary cap is about 75 million dollars a year. And that's just Salary. A vanity team will spend additional yens for vacations to Hawaii, sports doctors, exercise equipment, etc. And Urban Brawl is no different.

An Urban Brawl Team has 13 players on the field, and every time someone scores, five minutes elapse, or a motorcycle or ball gets destroyed. The game is two fucking hours of play time long, so it's a sinch that a team can send in replacements about 40 times a game. An average game sees about 100 men on each team. And while incapacitations are constant, deaths are actually fairly rare. Ambulance services are right there and a player is never downed for more than five minutes before resuscitation begins.

So an active list for each team is about 200 players. And a vanity team is looking at squandering about 200 to 500 million :nuyen:. Some of that goes to salary, some to flash equipment, some to transportation, some to advertising, and so on. But a damned lot of it goes to body modification. I would be totally shocked if someone walked onto the field in an Ares Predators jersy and had less than 200,000 :nuyen: worth of equipment in their body.

-Frank
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Trax
post Dec 16 2006, 04:02 AM
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For the teams like the Predators, would they then be given Delta grade cyber?
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Kesslan
post Dec 16 2006, 05:30 AM
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QUOTE (Trax)
For the teams like the Predators, would they then be given Delta grade cyber?

I doubt it, I'd say at -least- alpha/cultured though.

Possibly Betaware which is your standard rich man gear. Delta is still basically the ultra bleeding edge stuff you dont find except at the very ultimate pinicles of power as far as I know.

And while the number of delta clinics etc have no doubt about doubled since they first came out, there are still not -that- many of them.
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Slump
post Dec 16 2006, 05:45 AM
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I'd say Pain Editors would also be as common as armor. There's no point in sending people on the field only to have them be distracted by being shot in the leg. Smartlinks would be a must, and I bet the motorcycle driver will be a rigger more often than not.

Most of the pro teams, and some of the semi-pro teams would have a few captains with the BattleTac system, and all the grunts having the senseware side of BattleTac. Personally, I'd throw the BattleTac Computer into the Medic, since he's probably not gonna get shot ... much.
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Vaevictis
post Dec 16 2006, 06:21 AM
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QUOTE (Slump)
Personally, I'd throw the BattleTac Computer into the Medic, since he's probably not gonna get shot ... much.

As soon as they figure out that that's what you like to do, the medics will start getting shot at a hell of a lot more often ;)
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Slump
post Dec 16 2006, 06:32 AM
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But they get penalties for intentionally shooting the medic, and you get to replace the medic immediatly. Just keep him off of the motorcycle in heavy combat zones.
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Vaevictis
post Dec 16 2006, 06:52 AM
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QUOTE (Slump @ Dec 16 2006, 01:32 AM)
But they get penalties for intentionally shooting  the medic, and you get to replace the medic immediatly.  Just keep him off of the motorcycle in heavy combat zones.

Kill enough of them, and the medics are going to start saying, "Uh, no, I'm not carrying that for you." ;)

The team might start having a problem when enough of their mates die because the medics keep getting killed for carrying the computers.
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 16 2006, 07:06 AM
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QUOTE
Most of the pro teams, and some of the semi-pro teams would have a few captains with the BattleTac system, and all the grunts having the senseware side of BattleTac.


No they wouldn't. All transmitters have to be disabled in an Urban Brawl game or it's an immediate disqualification of the team. Any BattleTac system would have to have trailing wires to all the participants.

-Frank
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ShadowDragon8685
post Dec 16 2006, 08:08 AM
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QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
QUOTE
Most of the pro teams, and some of the semi-pro teams would have a few captains with the BattleTac system, and all the grunts having the senseware side of BattleTac.


No they wouldn't. All transmitters have to be disabled in an Urban Brawl game or it's an immediate disqualification of the team. Any BattleTac system would have to have trailing wires to all the participants.

-Frank

I think you sorely underestimate the scope of what someone with a backpack mounted spool of fiberoptic and some ingenuity can do.


And shooting Medics deliberately is a very good way to get disqualified - hell, shooting them accidently (provided they're not riding the bike) is bad enough.


Though I should note that this is the 2070 Wireless Age we're working with here, Frank, not the Bleak 2050s. I'm sure the rules have changed - if for no other reason than that they can have battle-tac software installed in their players and then broadcast it as part of the 'trix feed - see and hear what your favorite players are thinking and planning, in real time!

Of course, to prevent unfair intel, players will be limited to only communications coming from inside the area - but anything that originates inside the arena is fair game, if you can decrypt it and understand it. This could lead to the rise of "Tech Zones", prefab spots of technology, being put up inside the barrens arena - they could be caches of supplies for the player skilled enough to hack them open, for example.
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Kesslan
post Dec 16 2006, 08:13 AM
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Yeah I'm pretty sure at least some changes to the game would be present in 2070. But that isnt necessarily true though. It could be deemed... 'unsportsmanlike'.

Its the same reason Adepts and Cyberware isnt allowed in alot of 'professional' sports. Or at least frowned uppon. Its 'unnatrual'. Of course Urban Brawl is one of those sprots thats all for cyberware etc. But that doesnt mean they wouldnt still rule out the use of AR.

Adding it however also would I think add a whole new... sort of level to the game though. I hope at least at some opint some official fluff comes out that covers the changes to sports and the like by the 2070s. Because i"m sure there has to be at least -some-.
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ShadowDragon8685
post Dec 16 2006, 08:19 AM
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It occurs to me that for the really high-priced games, they might even do all drone-vs-drone heat-offs, where it's no-holds-barred drone warfare. Sure, it'd be expensive as hell - but if you think about it, a 100,000 :nuyen: drone is both emminantly more disposable and emminantly easier to repair than a metahuman with 200,000 :nuyen: in his body.


Plus, it would be the perfect advertising for your new drone models.
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Kesslan
post Dec 16 2006, 08:31 AM
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Well I think it's been stated somewhere allready that stuff like this happens, it would just be more prevailant in 2070 since drones are infact cheaper than they used to be.

I think it's been mentioned somewhere in one of the books about even drone vs meta/critter combat. Though that may be mostly in the illegal circuits. But we have something akin to drone vs drone now (The heck is that show called again. Battlebots or something. Remote controled machines of destruction face off aganist each other)

And you can allways recover -some- of the cost. If nothing else a drone is worth it's weight in scrap metal :D

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Digital Heroin
post Dec 16 2006, 09:34 AM
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We've got Drone Football to showcase the toys... Urban Brawl is about pure atheletes, if slightly augmented...

...or Adepts hiding their magical ways with Masking and playing it off like they're a really pure athlete, as in the case of one of my old characters...
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Serbitar
post Dec 16 2006, 12:22 PM
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Ahm Frank, a team having 200 men? I dont think that would do. Games are there so you identifiy yourself with players. If only one team had 200 players thats about as anonymous as it gets.

I think the upper limit for a team rooster is 30.
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fistandantilus4....
post Dec 16 2006, 12:43 PM
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13 men on the filed IIRC and a replacement for each, so about that. Plus who ever they might have on the side to replace casualties. :D
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Vaevictis
post Dec 16 2006, 12:48 PM
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QUOTE (Serbitar)
I think the upper limit for a team rooster is 30.

In real life, NFL teams have 60 or more, so you can have quite a few more than 30.
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FrankTrollman
post Dec 16 2006, 04:49 PM
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Honestly, I think that just as Football teams make superstars out of the quarterbacks, the Urban Brawl League gets a superstar status for the Medics and for the same reason - that's the guy who does something important every play.

In Football, the play starts when you hand the ball to the QB, so he is always doing something important. In Urban Brawl, the medic is the guy who isn't being shot at, so he's the guy (probably the only guy) who's on the field for the whole game. Everyone lse gets shot and won't come back in until next game (or the game after that, or never, depending upon how badly he got shot).

The game sees about 40-50 plays before it's over, and each play involves someone being shot (albeit, rarely fatally). Honestly, a team only having only 200 replacements on it is extremely optimistic - games would end because one team or the other couldn't field a full team constantly. Especially when you remember that players who get removed in one game will often miss the next game - you could be in a situation where you were down 150 players by the end of a game without that being considered bad. A poor showing could easily incapacitate double that.

Urban Brawl is a violent sport. But more than that, it's a really long sport. Playing time is double that of Football and players are removed from play constantly. Having teams that are only three times the roster depth of football is ridiculous under the circumstances.

-Frank
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Serbitar
post Dec 16 2006, 06:11 PM
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First I think that nobody ever "caculated" an urban brawl game and found out whether it is in any way realistic.
But when you ask "Joe Average Shadowrun Roleplaying Gamer" he will not think of an Urban Brawl Team consisting of 200 players. He will think 30 or something.

The job is to justify why its 30 players. I would go for:

- magical healing
- players spend most of the time walking aroud in the huge field instead of constantly fighting
- high armour ratings
- defensive playstyle

and so on
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Vaevictis
post Dec 16 2006, 06:48 PM
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QUOTE (Serbitar)
- high armour ratings

This was not true in the documentation I read.

In the source book describing Urban Brawl, the armor ratings were pretty low outside of the medic. The medic wore the equivalent of light security armor, and everyone else wore either the equivalent of a plated vest or a secure vest (4/3, 3/2 respectively), plus a helmet.

That's pretty weak on the armor scale.

The only way to get reasonably heavy armor was to be the guy in the plated vest, and have titanium bone lacing (+1 bal/+1 imp) and orthoskin 1 (+1 bal/+1 imp), which gets you up to 6/5, which is actually respectable.

(at least in my opinion. Armor didn't start getting heavy until at least light security armor, IMO)
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cx2
post Dec 16 2006, 06:57 PM
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I'd just like to point out that pain editors would likely decrease the survivability of a player. Pain can be a problem, but it's also your body's way of letting you know how close to getting killed you are so unless you want a team of kamikaze players I wouldn't advise it. I wouldn't be surprised if certain teams actually banned it outright for this very reason.
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Konsaki
post Dec 16 2006, 06:59 PM
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With the switch to SR4, I could easily see the players outfitted in Armored Jackets with the team logo on it. Thats 8B right there and enough to only take stun from handgun shots. Add in some ware and you have a team that would be KOed instead of KIA.
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eidolon
post Dec 16 2006, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (cx2)
I'd just like to point out that pain editors would likely decrease the survivability of a player. Pain can be a problem, but it's also your body's way of letting you know how close to getting killed you are so unless you want a team of kamikaze players I wouldn't advise it. I wouldn't be surprised if certain teams actually banned it outright for this very reason.

Good bio-monitors feeding information into your AR HUD. :)
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