FanPro Direct, Hey lets help kill the Industry. Options

[Butterblume]

[Smilin_Jack]

The last actual RPG book I bought was the SR4 BBB over at the barnes and noble across from a hotel in Florida, travelling from site to site for work over the past couple of years hasn't left me any time for face to face games, so I've ended up playing online - either PBeM, PBP, or the occasional openRPG game.

I haven't stepped into a FLGS since I started travelling for work. I either have to order online from Amazon or do a special order in a store (which may or may not get to that location in time for me to pick up again before I leave). I'd much rather order from FanPro (provided I know where my next assignment will be - so I can have it shipped there), than deal with the corporate behemoth that is Amazon (change of address post ordering - or getting the place it was shipped to is a fraggin PITA).

[Lindt]

[Kagetenshi]

Fair enough. For my part, as many problems as I have with the rules, I would have pegged the setting as the biggest negative. The dangers of extrapolating from one datapoint.

~J

[Lindt]

Fair enough.

Ok, back to the discussion fellas.

[Caine Hazen]

The FLGS *is* a necessity for certain portions of the industry to survive. There are many games I wouldn't buy or play if I didn't head into my shop and play them on a weekly basis. They also serve as a launching point for gamers to meet one another. Some people see this as a negative thing and stay in their basement ordering books and socializing behind the anonymity of an IRC or chat client game and that is fine. But I see it as a social medium far beyond that.

As I see it however, and has been stated, FanPro's new online store doesn't really hurt the FLGS. It just provides an extra outlet for some people who don't have that option (or just want to avoid it) to get their Srun fix. And it undercuts the middleman, making the FP crew more money... gods know that I can respect sticking it to Diamond/Alliance (not that I've worked any around the industry...)

Plus without my shop where would I get my monthly Missions fix at???

[eidolon]

I really would like to see my FLGS as a social medium, but after several attempts I've given up. Which is sad, because hey, I loves me a gaming store. But I don't pay full cover price for books/games/etc. when there's an option, and they don't sell used stuff. Given those, the only thing left to draw me would be the social aspect, and at this particular store it seems to be...lacking.

[ Spoiler ]

Note that I don't mean that as "the individual gamers around here suck as people". I see it as being a sad byproduct of the location (even given the fact that it's a university town and has quite a bit of diversity, Fayetteville is still in AR is still in the South-ish is still in the Bible Belt, thus gaming is still a potentially "weird" thing to do and there's still reticence to discuss it openly) and sheer numbers (lower potential gamer population leading to continuance of introversion and clique mentality). I'd love to be proven wrong, but so far nada.

I'd even like to say that I go there for product inspiration, but between TMP for minis, Amazon and Ebay for books, BGG for board games, and several manufacturers' sites for misc stuff, I usually know more about what's coming up with my current "gaming interest of the week" before they do. *shrug*

[nezumi]

[Caine Hazen]

nah nezumi, ther are a lot of gaming companies that couldn't exist without FLGS. This is why WK implemented some of their steps to head off the secondary market on ebay, and give incentives to people who could prove they bought things at brick and mortar shops. They are the core of what makes the tabletop industry. Unlike eidolon's situation, here in OH, people see it as a normal activity. So they come in a and watch, and join in, and buy games that they might not have even considred buying beofre they saw them or tried them there at the FLGS.. I know our SRun Missions group has helped my old store sell more Srun books... so win-win there. And that's not something I get through looking at a product online.. and with limited cons to go to, it makes the FLGS a critical link to the industry

[SL James]

[lorechaser]

[Kesslan]

Yeah I'm in a similar boat. There is only ONE RPG store really left in my entire city. Four other stores are 'supposedly' carrying various RPG books for assorted companies. These stores are still (dispite my constant sending DP9 correctiosn about this) even listed on DP9's webpage, as well as a few other RPG company pages as 'offical sources' for their products.

Most of them long long ago stoped carrying RPG book at all, assuming they ever did to begin with.

Those that remain, only ONE actually carries any decent selection of RPGs. Shadowrun, isnt really among those commonly carried. The other three stores are comic book stores. Two are part of the same chain, though only one of the locations actualy carries anything other than D&D and even then the selection is limited.

The other keeps claiming that companies like Fanpro and DP9 are either dead/dying. And have been saying so for years dispite proof to the contrary. Again they carry mostly D&D and related products, and just about never have the books I want when it comes to Shadowrun.

And while they will order them for me, for a tiny bit extra I can just order the books online and have them shipped to my house. Thus saving me money in parking/gas/bus fare not to mention the time involved in having to go down to said stores myself (None of which are close to me, and I work 11pm-7am, so I have to get up pretty early or stay up pertty late most days to get there before they close etc)

So personally I'm all for things like Fanpro opening it's own online store. Because the only hoby stores that are even remotely common around the city I live in is GamesWorkshop. They've got quite a few locations and they all seem to do very well indeed. But they dont carry anything other than their own products.

[Moon-Hawk]

FLGS don't suck because of FanPro Direct. FanPro Direct was created because FLGS already suck. I know that sounds harsh, but 10 years ago I knew of lots of great gaming stores. Now they're all gone. I've got to get gaming books somewhere.

[SL James]

[fistandantilus4....]

Feeling mighty lucky about the stores in my area. I went shopping last week, at one store, picked up copy of the Germany SB and Shadowbeat, and NAN1 at another. I've got another jsut down the street that gets all the new books that come out (although a month or three behind on average). And another in an half hour drive that usually has old and new.

The stores that I see succeed though rarely seem to advertise shadowrun, they just know what I'm looking for because I go in fairly frequently. Really other companies have been doing this for yeras, so i don't realyl see a product taht often isn't carried in full in the sotres having a big effetc on them.

I'm also wondering why Mr. Platinum hasn't come back on to discuss his isssue some more.

[Kesslan]

[Vaevictis]

Consumers know that when they go to the local brick and mortar, they're going to be paying more than if they ordered direct, or even from a massive company like Amazon or B&N. It's just how it works -- big guys have volume, volume means discounts.

If an FLGS doesn't add enough value on its own -- by letting you browse, by giving you a place to hang out, by having just about everything you need under one roof, by keeping out of print items, etc, etc, etc -- then it deserves to go under. There's no reason I should pay extra at an FLGS just so the FLGS can exist. Ain't my responsibility.

And it ain't the publisher's either. It's the middle-men's responsibility to find a reason for existing; it just isn't the publisher's job to provide him with one.

[Butterblume]

Amen.

[nezumi]

I know this is a silly question, but buying from Fan Pro direct gives more money to Fan Pro, right? I mean, where would Fan Pro prefer I buy my books, Amazon, DrivethruRPG or Fan Pro direct?

[Kesslan]

Yeah, when it's the RPG company directly selling the books, pretty much all the actual proffit goes to them as well. Part of the reason for this of course is with MMOs becomming ever more popular and spread out genre wise, alot of tabletop games -have- suffered because of it too.

Less stores buying their books means less proffits overall. I mean generally alot of the RPG stores I buy books from dont charge more than it costs me to order direct, which means their taking a cut of the cover price, which ultimately means unless there's a high volume of sales, companies like Fanpro dont haul in much at all.

I'd much rather keep the RPG companies in buisness than the RPG stores. Afterall, you really cant have the stores, without the RPGs and such to sell.

[bofh]

Yea but if there are less stores with the products, aren't there then less impulse buyers? Less chance of a spur of the moment purchase of a module or sourcebook? Sounds like a lovely death spiral there and not necessarily of the store. Many of the additional games and modules I purchased, including Shadow 1st Ed were purchased because I saw them in the store when I was looking for something else (probably Car Wars at the time :) ).

Carl

[Kesslan]

The only positive side I've ever seen to RPG stores is it gets those playing RPGs to take notice of RPGs they might otherwise never even know about.

Keep in mind RPGs such as Shadowrun, Heavy Gear, Paranoia, D&D are all different companies. Most of your 'impulse buys' will either be product books in the line your looking for (In which case your just as likely to make it online as not since you'll suddenly see that new source book you didnt know about) or for a totaly different RPG made by a totaly different company.

So technicaly speaking there is little to no benifit for an RPG company to care if you buy it from a store or from them directly. And if you do so from them directly they -allways- have a representation of what they have available even if it's currently out of stock/out of print etc. Some times even if it's been discontinued.

The only thing online shopping is missing is that sort of, personal touch that -is- nice. But that doenst help me when the one store in my city doesnt even carry the RPGs I like and claims that all those RPGs are 'dead' or 'dying' when they are quite clearly not.

[eidolon]

[jervinator]

Most of my impulse buys for RPGs are things I wanted in the first place and was waiting for a more financially secure time OR were ordered online after viewing them on a web site.

[Mr.Platinum]